Where do I start researching my Great Grandfather

[cbcarolyn]

I'm just doubting now whether he was naturalised. He would have had to say in the application what his birth name was and what he is now known as if different. This would have shown up in the TNA records detailed in post #107. In fact one example is shown there -Mark Isaac Simon Stroch (or known as Mark Simons).

Mistakes do happen and perhaps Simon and his wife Melba(?) should not have been on the ER for 1929 at all.

I had put the links to TNA on post 19, and it wasn't bringing up anything. I wonder if it was quite easy to get on ER, it may have been done on honesty, not sure how it works now.

[cbcarolyn]

mmarksx19 did you order the will?

[PhotoFamily]

If there are not naturalization papers, then I would focus research on
* Finding the tombstone, and hope that it like many Jewish gravestones lists father's name in Hebrew.
* Finding if there are any surviving records from the synagogue
* DNA testing
* Retrieving daughter Sarah's certificates - probably won't lead to anything, but - leave no stone unturned. I'd probably want them for my family tree, anyway

[Katarzyna]

Thats the one I ordered - but looks like it is a different person! Don't believe he had any children at that point. Looks like I have wasted my £30!

I'm just doubting now whether he was naturalised. He would have had to say in the application what his birth name was and what he is now known as if different. This would have shown up in the TNA records detailed in post #107. In fact one example is shown there -Mark Isaac Simon Stroch (or known as Mark Simons).

Mistakes do happen and perhaps Simon and his wife Melba(?) should not have been on the ER for 1929 at all.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thank you Carolyn - it was the whole series of the "Hospital records" threads (went up to part 14 or more) that I was referring to. I just couldn't remember the title. Our forum member Wallaby eventually wrote and privately published a book about her journey and her discoveries.
There was info, and references, throughout the threads which would be very useful to Michael, if he could retrieve and bear to plough through the whole series of "Hospital Records" threads, each of which was extremely long and had the usual diversions and digressions.

Jay

[cbcarolyn]

do you mean this very very long thread!

https://www.familytreeforum.com/forum/research-advice/family-history-research/29771-calling-all-myers-from-leeds-cohen-from-canada-needs-help

there was this also

https://www.familytreeforum.com/forum/research-advice/sensitive-research/15427-hospital-records-facts-reference-thread

...and many other threads - some are for Canada. some of the records maybe more widely available, like the naturalisations on Ancestry to 1916, so might be worth a google before committing to something.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I'm getting a feeling of deja vue with the family history search of forum member Wallaby, which went on for many months and developed over a series of threads. It was quite a saga! Can't remember the title of the thread, but if someone could retrieve the archive for it, and post a link I think it could be helpful reading for Michael. Byron St synagogue Leeds rings a bell, as do some of the surnames - I think Wallaby's ancestors came over from Poland/Russia, and that there was a Leeds connection (and a later Dublin one) before her father was in Liverpool. All the instalments make for VERY lengthy reading (including many red herrings and asides) but in amongst it all I'm sure there were lots of useful leads as to where to research and possible sources, and also some history, which could be invaluable to some else trying to research their Jewish ancestry.

Jay

[Katarzyna]

These are all the Simon Marks listed on the National Archives 1900 - 1949:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_tsj=C10071&_p=1925%7C1900&_hb=tna&_q=%27simon+marks%27

[cbcarolyn]

See posts 16 - 21 re on line availability of naturalisation papers.

I think we are assuming that as he is not on the reg of electors until 1929 (his son is) it happened around that time, and presumably in Leeds.

[mmarksx19]

I assume you mean this one found on the National Archives:
Scroll down.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...hb=tna&_st=adv

Which is this certificate: 2 pages

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...7110&pId=83660

Both have the same No 8701

Thats the one I ordered - but looks like it is a different person! Don't believe he had any children at that point. Looks like I have wasted my £30!

[Katarzyna]

I assume you mean this one found on the National Archives:
Scroll down.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...hb=tna&_st=adv

Which is this certificate: 2 pages

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...7110&pId=83660

Both have the same No 8701

[cbcarolyn]

NB there is a Simon Marks in Manchester in 1896, but he has children. did you manage to get access to Ancestry via you library?

All the books are on there until 1916. So it maybe a transcription problem, or that he declared a different name. You can add Leeds in as a keyword and tick the exact box, and limit to that area.

I did look for si* in Leeds and it comes up with 21 hit - but nothing looking that promising

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/9156/?name=sim*&count=50&keyword=leeds&keyword_x=1

[cbcarolyn]

No evidence but it was quite common practice I believe. Hence so many Jews were called Moses or Abrahams (you're Jewish so we will call you Moses) or Tailor as that was their profession when they arrived in Britain.

I have found what I believe to be the reference to Simon/Simeon Marks naturalization papers - it would appear he was naturalized just before he got married (same year) which would make sense. I have sent off for them so when they arrive I will let you know what I find out.

that is good news, wonder why they are not on ancestry.

[mmarksx19]

What evidence is there of that Michael?

No evidence but it was quite common practice I believe. Hence so many Jews were called Moses or Abrahams (you're Jewish so we will call you Moses) or Tailor as that was their profession when they arrived in Britain.

I have found what I believe to be the reference to Simon/Simeon Marks naturalization papers - it would appear he was naturalized just before he got married (same year) which would make sense. I have sent off for them so when they arrive I will let you know what I find out.

[Katarzyna]

It is possible but I don't think so.

Marks wouldn't have been his or our original name so there would have been a lot of immigrants from Poland/Russia etc that had names Anglicized to Marks. Of course I would love to be wrong!

What evidence is there of that Michael?

[mmarksx19]

Michael Marks (M&S) was born in Russia, come to Leeds 1882, and died in Manchester. I have been looking for his family tree to see how it branches out but here is his Wikipedia.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Marks

I wonder if Simon is a distant relation?.

It is possible but I don't think so.

Marks wouldn't have been his or our original name so there would have been a lot of immigrants from Poland/Russia etc that had names Anglicized to Marks. Of course I would love to be wrong!

[Tilly Mint]

Michael Marks (M&S) was born in Russia, come to Leeds 1882, and died in Manchester. I have been looking for his family tree to see how it branches out but here is his Wikipedia.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Marks

I wonder if Simon is a distant relation?.

[cbcarolyn]

The M&S names do make it harder.
I saw a suggestion to use the Jewish Chronicle archives which I paid for and found loads of hits for Simon Marks - only to find he was the son of the founder of M&S (became a Sir) and not the same Simon Marks I am looking for! There were thousands of hits but I didn't find any for the Simon Marks I am searching for.

If only they were the same person..........

if only - that would have been exciting!

[mmarksx19]

The M&S names do make it harder.
I saw a suggestion to use the Jewish Chronicle archives which I paid for and found loads of hits for Simon Marks - only to find he was the son of the founder of M&S (became a Sir) and not the same Simon Marks I am looking for! There were thousands of hits but I didn't find any for the Simon Marks I am searching for.

If only they were the same person..........

[Tilly Mint]

So many newspaper reports refer to Marks half of Marks and Spencer....

M&S are getting my way of research as well.....but who knows what we dig up!