Where do I start researching my Great Grandfather

[cbcarolyn]

So many newspaper reports refer to Marks half of Marks and Spencer....

[Katarzyna]

deleted by me - info re naturalisation was for Marks Simons not Simon Marks in 1919 Manchester

[kylejustin]

Just a thought re poland, it was a country in it's own right until 1772, until the "partitions of poland". when russia, (catherine the great) prussia (frederick the great) and austria (empress maria theresa) decided under a secret treaty, to invade and annex parts of poland. Prussia and russia did it again in 1793, and then 1795 the three powers carved up what was left of poland. It was wiped off the map until 1918, when the allied powers reconstituted the country, along with new territories from the previous empires.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitions_of_Poland

the history leading up to the partitions is rather complicated, but quite interesting.

so if you family comes from "poland" or "russia", it's likely eastern poland and surrounding territories. Might help in finding records or history groups to help.

[cbcarolyn]

Now that I have summarised it, penny hadn't dropped that the reg of elector is same address as 1911 census, and I can see Henry on the roll in prior years, so maybe that is indicating when he got his naturalisation.

The women wouldn't be on there until 1929 anyway.

the indexing seems to start in 1920 with Nathaniel Nathan and in 1924 he and Henry are there, then just Henry.

[cbcarolyn]

have added to original post

[Tilly Mint]

A quick summary of what is known about Simeon (I think?) will check newspapers for the addresses

1891
12 Lydia Street, Leeds Lodging age 20 (b1871) lodging with the Labovitch family (all born in Russia and tailors) and Louis Kolmenson is also lodging

1896
43 Cannon Street, Leeds age 25 (b1871) marriage

1901
8 Sheepscar Place, Leeds age 31 (b1870) with Nathan family

1911
5 Glover Street, Leeds age 43 (b1868) with Nathan family

1929
5 Glover Street, Leeds (elec roll) with son

1939
117 Ordsall Lane, Salford age 77 (b1862), living with daughter

1943 & 1947
(deaths) 210 Brunswick Road, Chorlton on Medlock age 78 (b1869)

No reg of electors available for Brunswick Street on line see post 12

Naturalisation records after 1916 are not on Ancestry see posts number post 19-21

Only town mentioned for PoB is Manupole, Russia

Father is Moses Marks on marriage cert

Thanks Carolyn. Is there any chance your timeline can be put under Michael's 1st post, then we can access it without scrolling through the thread?

[PhotoFamily]

cbcarolyn Thank you for the summary!

OP, another proven technique is to see if other lines know anything. You could try contacting anyone descended from Amelia's nieces or nephews.

[cbcarolyn]

could fully research the Nathan family, there are a number of them, maybe some other paths crossing, but think that maybe unlikely.

would still go for the Will, might mention someone, possibly unlikely

It is looking like he came across on his own, I can't find any records of crossings? anyone else tried and failed?

[cbcarolyn]

A quick summary of what is known about Simeon (I think?) will check newspapers for the addresses

1891
12 Lydia Street, Leeds Lodging age 20 (b1871) lodging with the Labovitch family (all born in Russia and tailors) and Louis Kolmenson is also lodging

1896
43 Cannon Street, Leeds age 25 (b1871) marriage

1901
8 Sheepscar Place, Leeds age 31 (b1870) with Nathan family

1911
5 Glover Street, Leeds age 43 (b1868) with Nathan family

1929
5 Glover Street, Leeds (elec roll) with son

1939
117 Ordsall Lane, Salford age 77 (b1862), living with daughter

1943 & 1947
(deaths) 210 Brunswick Road, Chorlton on Medlock age 78 (b1869)

No reg of electors available for Brunswick Street on line see post 12

Naturalisation records after 1916 are not on Ancestry see posts number post 19-21

Only town mentioned for PoB is Manupole, Russia

Father is Moses Marks on marriage cert

[PhotoFamily]

does the fact that he is the synagogue caretaker might mean he is often a witness?

I think that's a strong possibility. Shame we can't see the synagogue's registry to see who are witnesses at other weddings.

Link worked fine. Interesting that he was from Poland, but a Russian subject. That was my experience with my friend's peeps - borders changed, so each census could have birth place variations on the theme. I've seen similar boundary/country changes with my own g'grandfather - Ireland and then Free Ireland

[cbcarolyn]

This looks like him as well

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X95D-ZN3

Hope the link works ha ha!

does the fact that he is the synagogue caretaker might mean he is often a witness?

[Tilly Mint]

This looks like him as well

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X95D-ZN3

Hope the link works ha ha!

[PhotoFamily]

Which would be consistent with this 1911 record

Mandle Derambus

52

abt 1859

Head

Male

Poland

Liverpool

Strange - he says he's married, but there are no other household members.

And he teaches Hebrew - the only connection to Simon may have been thru the synagogue

Oh, wait - "separated" has been crossed out and in a different hand is written "married"

[PhotoFamily]

perhaps his death (different place)

Mendel Derambus

abt 1857

1912

Jan-Feb-Mar

55 Not a lot of records to be seen in between - transcriptions must be mangled.

[Tilly Mint]

Drambus?

I was thinking along them lines too, PF.......but it's not a name I have heard before

And, the address Simon is, is Cannon St, Leeds isnt it?

[PhotoFamily]

What is the witness...Mendel's surname please.

Drambus?

No - Derambus - his own marriage in Leeds

Mendel Derambus

1899

Apr-May-Jun

Leeds

[Tilly Mint]

What is the witness...Mendel's surname please. I have had a look into Jacob Lyons but cant tie Simon in with him.

[PhotoFamily]

There are still many stones to turn. We've identified a will to recover. Not sure that the birth or marriage certs for Sarah would turn anything up, except, possibly, interesting witnesses. Trying to identify the witnesses to Simon & Amelia's marriage might turn up something useful.

There is an email-based user group for Leeds Jewish Genealogy

https://www.jewishgen.org/jcr-uk/subscribe.htm

I wonder if they know where the synagogue's records are located.

It's possible that on the death cert for Simon Marks there may be an informant that you could recognize, which would help verify the relationship.

I'm starting to suspect that Simon came to the UK as a young man, not accompanied by his parents. Since he's on electoral rolls, presumably he naturalized? Never heard an answer about that - but if so, his papers might provide a bunch of detail.

DNA testing might provide clues - maybe even answers.

Anyone who has researched for a while has likely experienced chasing the wrong lead - but you don't know that until you look.

[cbcarolyn]

I am not experienced in this, but does almost make me wonder if that was just a name plucked out of the air (if that is possible), as nothing about profession or deceased. Ever changing age is not helping!

Have you followed through any of the links posted about Jewish genealogy?

[mmarksx19]

The copy marriage certificate arrived this morning (attached).
Must be the right person but adds a different d.o.b. (married in June 1896 gives his age as 25) into the mix!
Does give his fathers name (Moses Marks) but doesnt lead me any closer to where born/brothers/sisters/mother/father other than the extra name.

I went onto findagrave but they have no reference to the deaths of either Amelia or Simon soI can't request a photo. What I can do is contact the cemetery and ask them if they will photograph and send me the gravestone images.