Where do I start researching my Great Grandfather

[cbcarolyn]

back to the naturalisation records on ancestry as mentioned in posts 18 - 20, I did a search for Mark* to see what others brought up. Nothing that I can see that share a father of Moses, but not all records have parents

Most interesting was Woolf Markson born in Mariampole, poland that is similar to Simons only mention of a town.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/9156/images/42475_1831101456_11599-00752?ssrc=pt_t171416310_p162244530907&treeid=171416310&personid=162244530907&hintid=&queryId=595f808298780a706558d7e853906413&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi34824&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.246715597.857931426.1607287868-1606468201.1602834035&pId=13484

there are a few on there, but nothing stand out yet.

[cbcarolyn]

I guess you could scratch around at other Marks in Leeds with similar birth year born in Russia, could be a big task.

Might find their gravestone and get same parents. I think Marks is not that unique though.

I did find a Barnet Marks b 1876 married Kate Rubinstein (I think) although getting a bit confused as 1901 census has son Israel M, but GRO has

MARKS, ALEXANDER RUBINSTEIN
GRO Reference: 1903 M Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page 514
MARKS, MORRIS RUBINSTEIN
GRO Reference: 1900 D Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page 401
MARKS, SARAH BETSY RUBINSTEIN
GRO Reference: 1904 J Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page 452

at this stage can only find them in 1901 census.

not sure why there are no records of shipping, someone maybe can advise.

there is also a Israel Barnet Marks 1898 I notice there is a private tree on Ancestry with a photo and you could try and contact her janetmyers146 looks like an infrequent visitor though, she has 'Barnie' as aka - so maybe knows about the tree rather than collecting names.

[cbcarolyn]

So, which certs have you purchased?
Marriage cert for Simon and Amelia (done, as I recall)
Birth certs for Henry & Sarah (can't remember what you have, but prob no new info)
Marriage certs for Henry & Sarah (witnesses for both marriages may be of interest)
Death Certs for Simon & Amelia (who are the informants; addresses)

Also potentially of interest is Amelia's siblings' marriages (witnesses!)
and of less interest, wills of her siblings.

Have you ever contacted the Leeds Jewish genealogy group?

Have the entire Hebrew inscriptions on the tombstones been translated?

FTF usually advocates buying certs - marriage records are the exception if you have the parish/synagogue record. That way you've dotted the i's and crossed the t's. There's no guarantee that you'll get new info, but you may kick yourself years later when you find out the details.

mmarksx19 Could you summarise all of this on here, I know you had said that you had all of the siblings done a while back. Addresses and witnesses could be a link.

[PhotoFamily]

It would be rather unusual if henry and sarah were the only children born to simon and amelia.

In the 1911, it was reported that Amelia had had 2 children, and 2 still living. Not that I haven't ever seen that detail warped with time, tho.

[PhotoFamily]

So, which certs have you purchased?
Marriage cert for Simon and Amelia (done, as I recall)
Birth certs for Henry & Sarah (can't remember what you have, but prob no new info)
Marriage certs for Henry & Sarah (witnesses for both marriages may be of interest)
Death Certs for Simon & Amelia (who are the informants; addresses)

Also potentially of interest is Amelia's siblings' marriages (witnesses!)
and of less interest, wills of her siblings.

Have you ever contacted the Leeds Jewish genealogy group?

Have the entire Hebrew inscriptions on the tombstones been translated?

FTF usually advocates buying certs - marriage records are the exception if you have the parish/synagogue record. That way you've dotted the i's and crossed the t's. There's no guarantee that you'll get new info, but you may kick yourself years later when you find out the details.

[kylejustin]

I do wonder if that naturalisation needs more research before discounting? Or does the date in manchester rule out your simon?

just because he had six children at time of naturalisation, doesn't mean they all survived to adulthood. It would be rather unusual if henry and sarah were the only children born to simon and amelia.

[cbcarolyn]

Barnett Marks was in glover street in 1910

glover street Marks.JPG

[cbcarolyn]

I guess you could scratch around at other Marks in Leeds with similar birth year born in Russia, could be a big task.

Might find their gravestone and get same parents. I think Marks is not that unique though.

I did find a Barnet Marks b 1876 married Kate Rubinstein (I think) although getting a bit confused as 1901 census has son Israel M, but GRO has

MARKS, ALEXANDER RUBINSTEIN
GRO Reference: 1903 M Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page 514
MARKS, MORRIS RUBINSTEIN
GRO Reference: 1900 D Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page 401
MARKS, SARAH BETSY RUBINSTEIN
GRO Reference: 1904 J Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page 452

at this stage can only find them in 1901 census.

not sure why there are no records of shipping, someone maybe can advise.

[mmarksx19]

I received the naturalisation papers yesterday but it looks like it was the wrong Simon Marks.
Although born in the same period (1868-1870) he had 6 children when naturalised and lived in Manchester.

On the grave stone for my Simon Marks, he is mourned by his Son and Daughter - so only 2 children. Although he died in Manchester, he lived in Leeds according to the various census entries.

Oh well - worth a try.

The Simon Marks I am researching says on his grave (and I'm 99% sure it is the correct grave) - mourned by his son (my grandfather Henry), daughter (my great Aunt Sarah), brothers and relatives.

Now, relatives is nothing to go on but brothers? If he is mourned by his brothers, I assume 'they' were still alive. I don't know of any of them. They may or may not have lived in the UK (and may or may not have had the same surname as it could have been changed when he came to the UK). Any thoughts as to what else I can try?

[Anne in Carlisle]

Memorial inscription! (On a grave stone)
Anne

[mmarksx19]

That is great news about the MI - so quick too, shame about the will, but adds to building the picture.

did this site help?

What is MI? Went on to jewishgen.org but didn't find any relevant matches
Still waiting for the naturalization papers - dispatched but haven't received them yet.

[cbcarolyn]

That is great news about the MI - so quick too, shame about the will, but adds to building the picture.

did this site help?

I found this site very useful when researching my ex's Jewish ancestors.

https://www.jewishgen.org/

[Jill on the A272]

UK researchers - would the DC have any information about his citizenship at the time of his death?

No, we don't get that sort of detail.

[PhotoFamily]

So, what about an obit - did you contact the Jewish group in Leeds for the photo, or was it FindAGrave? In either case, particularly with swift response, the photographer may know of resources for an obit, perhaps in a Jewish newspaper.

Also, the gravestones are often set a year after the death, with appropriate memorial services, perhaps including a memorial notice in the paper, too.

I've sometimes had very (very!) good results asking the photographer for further clues.

Oh, and, also... I've also found relatives buried nearby. Perhaps the photographer would know? Now we're looking for the brothers, tho they may not have come to the new country.

[PhotoFamily]

UK researchers - would the DC have any information about his citizenship at the time of his death?

[PhotoFamily]

Awesome!!!

So, the friend that I worked with had a facebook group that would translate the Hebrew - would you like me to ask her for details?

[Katarzyna]

What a great response to your request, Michael. Something to treasure.

[mmarksx19]

I have now received some papers so have a bit of an update.

I got the will of Sarah Marks (Simons daughter). No further information there - she left everything to her nephew (my dad) as she had no children and he was an only child.
As suggested above, I raised a photo request for Amelia's and Simons graves and within 24 hours somebody had fulfilled the request!
I have attached the photos to this reply.
Amelias gravestone is hard to read but I don't think tells me any more than I knew already.
Simons gravestone has a few interesting facts.
Firstly, it states he will mourned by his brothers - I don't have any reference to his brothers - maybe they were also called Marks, maybe they were also in the UK - I don't know but I will dig further if I can.
Secondly, the Hebrew portion states his name as Shimon Yisrael (which I assume is Simon Israel). I am not sure how the Hebrew names work - I THINK that is his first and middle name rather than surname but am not sure.
It also states his father in Hebrew as Moses Michael which again I THINK is his fathers first and middle name. Still not sure where the surname Marks comes from.
I am still waiting for the naturalization papers I ordered - I so hope they are for the right person! Right now, I am guessing that Simeon was incorrect on one of the census records as he is Simon in all other documents.

If this information prompts any further suggestions - I would greatly appreciate them!

[PhotoFamily]

I contacted the cemetery where Simon and Amelia are buried but they said they didn't have any other information and wouldn't take photos of the gravestones for me..

I don't know how things work in the UK, but -
* If you create a memorial page for Simon and Amelia on FindAGrave, and then request a photo for each - a volunteer might go take a photo for you.

* You need to know, or a volunteer would need to know, the location of the gravestones within the cemetery. Office should know this, I hope?

* The links to the Jewish interest group in Leeds might know a volunteer who would go snap a photo for you.

Be aware, altho I think the resistance is diminishing, but many cemeteries do not want their gravestones put online, and don't want to give out info.

[cbcarolyn]

Let's hope the will is a good one, I assume you don't have any for Amelias family? childless siblings might be interesting if there are any.