Where do I start researching my Great Grandfather

[PhotoFamily]

He goes to the US and dies before 1930, so not a brother on the headstone (but he did have more!)

But you can see he was married before his naturalisation.

So, where did he die, and when? There's a photo of his headstone?

US DCs in that era will probably have blanks for POB, parents' names and their POBs.

[Katarzyna]

I do wonder if that naturalisation needs more research before discounting? Or does the date in manchester rule out your simon?

just because he had six children at time of naturalisation, doesn't mean they all survived to adulthood. It would be rather unusual if henry and sarah were the only children born to simon and amelia.

Because that Simon Marks was born c1858 and he is with his wife and children on the 1901 and 1911 censuses in Manchester:
1901 census:

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=7814&h=23623917&tid=&pid=&queryId=dd923f0fe8db45f03cf1d9119e2863db&usePUB=true&_phsrc=lpM30&_phstart=successSource

[cbcarolyn]

So, where did he die, and when? There's a photo of his headstone?

US DCs in that era will probably have blanks for POB, parents' names and their POBs.

Have not looked hard for his death yet, found wide in 1930 widowed. Guess if I could find that and an obit - might then discount family. will look

[cbcarolyn]

I think this is them in 1920
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=87344267

there is a death in 1926 NB they have changed from Markson to Marks if it is them.

I don't know how US docs work this is a likely one:
Name: Wolf Marks
Age: 62
Birth Year: abt 1864
Death Date: 7 Aug 1926
Death Place: Kings, New York, USA
Certificate Number: 16830

[cbcarolyn]

could be this headstone, no help there in the english words

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...077/wolf-marks

another here ?

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/130470105/woolf-marks

[cbcarolyn]

This could be it - says parent is David and Leah

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W5B-DWS

Naturalisation says Barnet & Leah.

Makes me wonder if they know the name of their father, maybe they never actually knew in those days? do names change due to translation?

[PhotoFamily]

This could be it - says parent is David and Leah

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W5B-DWS

Naturalisation says Barnet & Leah.

Makes me wonder if they know the name of their father, maybe they never actually knew in those days? do names change due to translation?

Yes. Translation/anglicization/desire to blend in. Familysearch has some interesting pages on the subjects of Jews in Britain and name changes:
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en...Jewish_Records

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en...s#Jewish_Names

[PhotoFamily]

"The Jews kept meticulous records, were very reluctant to part with them, and were not requested to deposit them by the Registrar General in the mid-19th century, thus they remain with the Jewish community. They may be at synagogues, Jewish institutions, or Jewish cemeteries and burial societies. Some have been deposited into the care of local or county archives and much has been microfilmed, to be found under FamilySearch Catalog - COUNTRY - (COUNTY) - (TOWN) - JEWISH RECORDS,"
from the same wiki page

Again, contacting the Jewish gen society of Leeds is important to finding local synagogue records.

[cbcarolyn]

there is a Marks that is the sexton at the Leeds synagogue, can't remember his first name, but saw his naturalisation record.

[PhotoFamily]

Some information from my contact who found her Jewish ancestor later in life, using genetic genealogy:
Jews had two given names traditionally. Neither is considered a "middle" name and they can be in any order, neither is more primary than the other.
The two names of the father would be his two given names.

first names of living relatives were not given to children?...unless someone that died with the name was shared by a living person too, which is not that unusual. The norm is you name after the last important relative that died. Could be an Uncle, grandfather or anyone else important to the family.

Simon's full headstone translation:

"[abbreviation] Here is buried/ Mr. Shimon Yisrael son of Mr. Moshe Michoel/ passed away 10 Adar 5707/ [abbreviation] May his soul be bound in the bond of life."

I like the benediction.

[PhotoFamily]

...Y-DNA testing might give you a surname....

Interesting info about Y-DNA from the same friend:
=============================
What about Y-DNA with Jewish ancestors? I remember something about it not being as useful with Jewish genealogy, but I never understood why. I am not 100%, but I suspect it is because they all share the same few. With the endogamy going back for 1000's of years, there are likely very few Y-DNA differences. Additionally, per scripture, Jews come from the 12 tribes. Those 12 men were all from the same man. Of course there have been conversions over the years, but one would thin the Y-DNA would be the same for most. "Monoallelic genetic markers, Y-chromosomal DNA and mitochondrial DNA, have proven their usefulness in understanding the patrilineal and matrilineal origins of Jewish Diaspora groups. Y-DNA analysis showed that most Diaspora Jews are descended from a smaller group of Middle Eastern men. Seven Y chromosome major branches (E3b, G, J1, J2, Q, R1a1, and R1b) that are prevalent among Ashkenazi Jews. Four of these (E3b, G, J1, J2, and Q) were part of the ancestral gene pool from the Middle East, whereas R1b and certain R1a sub-lineages are from Europe and may have incorporated into the Ashkenazi Jewish population. The presence of European Y-chromosomal lineages is the major difference between Ashkenazi Jews, Middle Eastern and Sephardic Jews.

The most common Ashkenazi Jewish Y chromosomal haplogroups are R1a1 and R1b. R1a1 is very common among Eastern European populations, Russians, Ukrainians, and Sorbs (Slavic speakers in Germany), as well as among certain Central Asian groups. However, it should be noted that a Middle Eastern origin for some R1a1 lineages cannot be ruled out. R1b is the most common Y-chromosome branch of Atlantic Europe. Its occurrence among Ashkenazi Jews may be an indicator of the mixture prior to the Ashkenazi Jewish migration to Eastern Europe or at later time points in certain locales.

Four mitochondrial haplogroups were found to account for >40 % of the total among Ashkenazi Jews, providing evidence for four founder females. These haplogroups form the so-called “star phylogenies”. Some of these founders originated in the Middle East. This origin is akin to the patrilineal mode of origins and the founder numbers and population frequencies vary greatly in the Jewish Diaspora populations."
=============================

So, the bad news would be that Y-DNA might not be very good for you when looking for a unique ancestral line. The good news might be that it wouldn't take very many men testing to give you a match, and probably a surname.

The ftDNA project would be able to give more complete info and how it would apply in your case.

[cbcarolyn]

Some information from my contact who found her Jewish ancestor later in life, using genetic genealogy:
Jews had two given names traditionally. Neither is considered a "middle" name and they can be in any order, neither is more primary than the other.
The two names of the father would be his two given names.

first names of living relatives were not given to children?...unless someone that died with the name was shared by a living person too, which is not that unusual. The norm is you name after the last important relative that died. Could be an Uncle, grandfather or anyone else important to the family.

Simon's full headstone translation:

"[abbreviation] Here is buried/ Mr. Shimon Yisrael son of Mr. Moshe Michoel/ passed away 10 Adar 5707/ [abbreviation] May his soul be bound in the bond of life."

I like the benediction.

that is very interesting, i have been hooked into looking at various Marks people, and they do seem to be changing names, so that makes sense now.

[mmarksx19]

As it has been quite some time, I thought I would update my thread.
Despite my best efforts, I have been unable to find any further information on my Great Grandfather or his brothers.
Thanks to all your help here, I did find his fathers name from the headstone but nothing else.

I guess he wasn't naturalized in the UK and his name/date of birth/place of birth alter across records. If I know his original name - before he came to the UK then I could search further but I haven't found any way of gleaning this information.

Michael

[cbcarolyn]

The only thing that you maybe lucky on is searching through all the ships passenger lists, the later ones say who they are visiting. I kind of feel that his brothers maybe in USA, certainly a lot from similar area in New York.

I did have a wander round, but need a more methodical approach. Some say who they are visiting. so maybe one of them visited Manchester, I didn't find an obvious one of Simon Marks visiting NY.

And search obits etc in NY to see if any mention brother in England.