Jaques/Jacques/Jakes.....

[thameside]

Hello again, we have spoke on ancestry i think darksecretz, i found the marriage for JWJ to elizabeth mitton on Oct-Nov-Dec 1863 in Brecknock, Breconshire, his name is mispelt again as Jagues, then it ends in the 1871, so i presume he has gone off or he has died as i have searched and seached using various names but nothing comes up. i do wonder tho as you have said about his other wife charlotte and a daughter named sarah, i havent found anything about her, im not related to them my line of the ancestry comes from alfred jaques JWJ son to wife elizabeth mitton.

[Darksecretz]

ahh I think I remember, :smilee: I don't suppose you have the marriage cert to Elizabeth? [just nosey and wondered if he claims he is single or a widower]

I had tracked Sarah up until 1881 I think it was, I posted the info upthread, re Charlotte she seems to be with her parents and then I lose track of her, [I will have a look and see if I can find anything for Charlotte & Sarah]

I don't suppose you have any marriage certs that show JWJ as a witness? Either from Alfreds marriage or his sisters? [grasping at straws here to try and establish just when he was last sighted alive]

[thameside]

Forgot to mention that in 1881 wales census, elizabeth jaques, his wife is in a union workhouse with three of their children it says she is still married from what i can see. so i wonder where JWJ is

[thameside]

The only certs i have so far are the Death of elizabeth widow of JWJ in 1913 in wales informant is georgine rowe daughter, Birth of walter son of JWJ and elizabeth in 1876, Marriage of JWJ and sarah robinson 1850 in melton mowbray, and Death of Robert jaques in 1882 informant is elizabeth voss daughter in law. I will have to purchase the marriage certificates i think for JWJ and elizabeth

[Darksecretz]

Robert being Johns father?

I would be interested in any information that you could pass on.. I would have sent you a copy of the 1850 marriage but see that you have it. [so I can't help you much there i'm afraid] I did wonder about Sarah though [charlottes daughter] if she ever did see her dad...

I am in much a quandry about this chap as you are really, I know that 'my' Sarah died, but I have no idea when or where!.. [JWJ's first wife]

[Darksecretz]

I have been thinking about this and as he was a gamekeeper, maybe he had to have some sort of license? maybe the County Record office have some information regarding this?

[Janet]

Yes, there are Gamekeepers Licences Books usually found in the CRO where the gamekeepers were working. I have found a few of my own gamekeepers in books in the Northants CRO, though most of mine are found in the 1700's.

Janet

[Darksecretz]

thats handy to know Janet.. would ALL gamekeepers have to be registered? the family seem to all be Gamekeepers as far as I can see..

[Janet]

As I understand it Gamekeepers had to be appointed by somebody in authority, so yes I would say that they would have to be registered. They would have guns, and licences to use the guns, so you could not just have anybody saying they were a gamekeeper. I wil see if I can find any references in my files to the sort of information you can get from these books.

Janet

[Darksecretz]

ooh thank you Janet.. it may help a lot.. I cannot find any trace of this family in 1841 and they say they came from Ardleigh in Essex

[Janet]

The one I have found, which is reasonably readable, has the Baronet, Lord of the Manor(named) granting his servant(named) the honour of Gamekeeper for the said Manor(named) by deputation 1st November 1771, and written in the book 1775. Not quite sure what the "by deputation" means though! Not a lot written, but enough to know whether you have the right ancestor in the right place at the right time and giving you the name of the Lord of the Manor! You then may be able to find more information from books kept by the landowner(s) and found on the A2A section of TNA. I have not gone down this road YET! Must get two more projects out of the way first!!

Janet

[Darksecretz]

thanks, that certainly gives me food for thought, it may well hold the clues to this flipping family..

[Darksecretz]

and just as I have said that I think I have found him in 1841 in Yorkshire!

typical!

[Janet]

:D:D

Janet

[Darksecretz]

mm now I have discovered a new 'child' Alfred.. born abt 1829 in Yorkshire, though I can't spot a birth, but a possible death in 1848 Yorks.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1841&indiv=try&h=11690825

[thameside]

Getting a little confused now lol, i have JWJ working at Brand Hall in norton in hales in 1871 census with Elizabeth wife, and children alfred and elizabeth, if you have his father robert in yorkshire in 1841 that census shows hes born in 1801 i think, it doesnt show his birth place, i looked yesterday for the gamekeepers thingy sorry forgot what its called, where all they are registered, its a mind field looking and didnt have much time i did look up brand hall years ago, and its now a privately owned estate but records for the licenses are kept somewhere for all gamekeepers, just have to try and find them

[Darksecretz]

Getting a little confused now lol, i have JWJ working at Brand Hall in norton in hales in 1871 census with Elizabeth wife, and children alfred and elizabeth, if you have his father robert in yorkshire in 1841 that census shows hes born in 1801 i think, it doesnt show his birth place, i looked yesterday for the gamekeepers thingy sorry forgot what its called, where all they are registered, its a mind field looking and didnt have much time i did look up brand hall years ago, and its now a privately owned estate but records for the licenses are kept somewhere for all gamekeepers, just have to try and find them

ah, that IS good news..

I have JWJ's parents thru the census and his siblings [that I have found] if you look on post#2 of this thread I have added the census links there to ancestry for Robert Jaques and Sarah Jaques, Robert was born abt 1795 in Ardleigh, Essex, [though I have yet to find his bapt] but his marriage is there to Sarah WENDEN [mistrans WINDON on Ancestry]

so far I have as a family group

Parents: Robert Jakes & Sarah Wenden married 20 Sept 1814 at Ardleigh, Essex.

Robert Jaques b. abt 1817 Ardleigh, Essex
John Wenden Jaques b. 1818 Ardleigh, Essex
George Jaques b. abt 1820, Ardleigh, Essex
Alfred Jaques b. abt 1829 Yorkshire. [I think that he may have died in 1848 in Yorkshire too]

[Darksecretz]

I would think that the records for Brand Hall would be in Shropshire Archives at Shrewsbury.

[Darksecretz]

Getting a little confused now lol, i have JWJ working at Brand Hall in norton in hales in 1871 census with Elizabeth wife, and children alfred and elizabeth, if you have his father robert in yorkshire in 1841 that census shows hes born in 1801 i think, it doesnt show his birth place, i looked yesterday for the gamekeepers thingy sorry forgot what its called, where all they are registered, its a mind field looking and didnt have much time i did look up brand hall years ago, and its now a privately owned estate but records for the licenses are kept somewhere for all gamekeepers, just have to try and find them

oooooo this might be what we need..

http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Source:Shropshire,_England._Register_of_Gamekeepers,_1711-1776,_1788-1807

[thameside]

Sorry its taken so long to reply, and the info you found was great, i got the marriage certificate of JWJ and elizabeth mitton today, date is 2 nov 1863 JWJ is 37,so lying about his age and elizabeth is 25, hes a gamekeeper as we already knew and his father is robert as we knew a gamekeeper also, so is he a bigamist as he states hes a bachelor and shes a spinster, the address is very hard to read, oh and the marriage is in brecon, i will copy it for you to keep when i get a spare min, so still no nearer to finding out what happened, the witnesses are elizabeth price and Euan winstone i think it says, anyway the plot thickens