Uncertainty Over an Uncertain Place of Birth

[GallowayLass]

Could she be this R. C. who is a pauper lunatic is the parish of All Saints, in The London County Asylum, Banstead, Epsom, Surrey? The woman is a domestic servant born 1858 and birthplace unknown. If the workhouse to school records are the correct Emily, her mother’s poor mental health may have been the reason for their dire straits?

[GallowayLass]

I don’t see a match anywhere in 1911. Perhaps she has died by then? Don’t see a likely death 1901-11 other than 1907 CHURCH, Rosina Jane aged 47 in St. Pancras but makes the birth year 1860 and I think someone else already has thought that is not her.

[vera2013]

I think it maybe right family

Entry for Southwark, Camberwell, Register of children, Sth Met School

Church, Emily b 1884
***Richard b 1882

admissions and 're-admissions and crossings out

*** Mother states boys name is Wallace Bertram Church GRO reg M quarter 1883 Maidstone

Name and address of relative - Mother Rosina GRW. Friend Mrs ?Tull, 38 Holmby St, Peckham

Vera

[cbcarolyn]

There was mention of a brother in one of the entries I found, but didn't see a name

I think too much of a coincidence with Rosina? Where were these records?

[cbcarolyn]

I think it maybe right family

Entry for Southwark, Camberwell, Register of children, Sth Met School

Church, Emily b 1884
***Richard b 1882

admissions and 're-admissions and crossings out

*** Mother states boys name is Wallace Bertram Church GRO reg M quarter 1883 Maidstone

Name and address of relative - Mother Rosina GRW. Friend Mrs ?Tull, 38 Holmby St, Peckham

Vera

That certificate must be worth getting then.

[GallowayLass]

The admission and discharge records for the asylum at Banstead are at London Metropolitan Archives

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=43&page=3#jump2record

[cbcarolyn]

The admission and discharge records for the asylum at Banstead are at London Metropolitan Archives
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...=3#jump2record

yes - I posted earlier - are they on line?

[GallowayLass]

Looking good for Wallace and he has an extra name at baptism and no father declared.

First Name(s): Wallace Bertram Boakes

Last Name: Church

1883

Birth Date: 07 Feb 1883

1884

Baptism Date: 18 Jan 1884

All Saints

Maidstone, All Saints

Ashford Road

-

-

Mother: Rosina

-

Kent

England

[vera2013]

There was mention of a brother in one of the entries I found, but didn't see a name

I think too much of a coincidence with Rosina? Where were these records?

Carolyn you put up the original records and links which recorded Richard. I will put up some links for the later records

Vera

[cbcarolyn]

I didn't see richard down the page - but don't remember seeing this:

"Church Rosina self ref from Casual Ward
Richard
Emily discharged Sutton School 25 July 1893"

[cbcarolyn]

Good find GL
I thought a name like that would bring back loads of obvious data, maybe he really didn't like it and wanted to be Richard!

[cbcarolyn]

I see that between the 2 children is a William Moakes, bit like Boakes His father in same place as Rosina

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...8_550605-00144

[GallowayLass]

1881 census - there are loads of BOAKES men in Maidstone reg district. None named Wallace or Bertram sadly

[vera2013]

Ancestry card catalogue. Board of Guardians records Southwark, Camberwell

Religious Creed Gordon Road Workhouse 2 entries page 40

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1557/images/31537_214440-00476?ssrc=&backlabel=Return

Register of Children sent to Sth Met Schools page 29

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1557/images/31952_a013421-00028?ssrc=&backlabel=Return

Vera

[cbcarolyn]

Ancestry card catalogue. Board of Guardians records Southwark, Camberwell

Religious Creed Gordon Road Workhouse 2 entries page 40

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1557/images/31537_214440-00476?ssrc=&backlabel=Return

Register of Children sent to Sth Met Schools page 29

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1557/images/31952_a013421-00028?ssrc=&backlabel=Return

Vera

they were the ones I hadn't found, not indexed - pesky.

wonder where they were in 1891. I think the one Elaine posted earlier has to be Emily in 1901

[vera2013]

they were the ones I hadn't found, not indexed - pesky.

wonder where they were in 1891. I think the one Elaine posted earlier has to be Emily in 1901

I think it's only admission and discharge w/house records indexed on Ancestry. I will browse some more to see if I can find where Emily went after leaving ?Sutton School hopefully to link with Elaine's 1901. Then of course where is mother maybe back in the workhouse or married or........

vera

[vera2013]

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...cklabel=Return

This is a record of Emily and Richard being discharged from Sth Met Schools

Emily, Banstead Road 17 April 1899. Relative , mother Rosina. To ? Employer The Cedars, Holton, Suffolk

Richard, Sutton 17 November 1898. Relative Friend Mrs Tull 38 Holmby St Peckham. To ? employer Mr F Simmonds 18 New Park Road Brixton Hill

Vera

[Elaine]

Found a Richard Church at the discharge address 1911 but no. 81

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=try&h=3737214

Can find him with the same family 1901 at a different address and he doesn't know where he was born on this one

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

chimney sweep on both returns

[GallowayLass]

I’m struggling to find Richard / Wallace / Bertram CHURCH or BOAKES as a child in 1891 census

[cbcarolyn]

I’m struggling to find Richard / Wallace / Bertram CHURCH or BOAKES as a child in 1891 census

The whole family are missing for this one then, they don't appear to be in workhouse/school either all those dates are 93 and on.

i see it mentions Opthalmic hospital, wonder if Rosina had sight problems?