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    Uncertainty Over an Uncertain Place of Birth

    Hello all,

    I have been trying to find information on my great-great Grandmother Emily Minnie Church. This is all I know:

    - She was born on 14th March 1885
    - She was born in Suffolk (no clue where though, the 1911 census says born Uncertain, Suffolk)
    - Her Father was Thomas Church 'No record of him or his occupation)
    - She married my great-great-grandfather in 1909.

    I'm sorry it's all rather scant but that's all the records I have. She appears in no records I've found until her marriage. I have never come across an uncertain PoB before and can't find any explanation online. Perhaps she was not born in Suffolk at all. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    #2
    One lady in my tree is a real tease, I have her birth cert (illegitimate) and her baptism. Both show the same date though in 1939 she gives a date some 18 months earlier. Her two marriage certs both show a father but neither match each other. It's largely down to her being in the same house from birth until 2nd marriage that I can be fairly confident I have her pinned down. She became head of the house in 1911 after her mother died and suddenly she can't decide where she was born, or perhaps she almost let slip where her mother may have been between census before coming home.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

    Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
    My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
    My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

    Comment


      #3
      I've had a look in the newspapers and there's nothing in the name of Emily Church or Emily Minnie Church for the county. My feeling is she was illegitimate and never registered or possibly brought up/adopted by someone other than mum for some reason.
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

      Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
      My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
      My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

      Comment


        #4
        The only Emily Minnie Church I can find is born Maidstone M 1885 Vol 02A Page 743. No mothers maiden name so probably illegitimate

        Looked at 1911 and 1939 and can see where you have got the info from but not always correct I'm sorry to say.

        She dies 1972 Dec qtr in Croydon Surrey, same date of birth as above
        Lin

        Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

        Comment


          #5
          This is the only Emily Minnie Church born 1885 +/- 1 year that came up in the England and Wales birth indexes

          620339F8-5676-4957-8839-28FE04FD6271.jpeg

          Comment


            #6
            Snap Lin

            Comment


              #7
              If she was illegitimate, she may not have been born with the surname Church; that could have been the name of a step-father. Where was she in 1911 census and what info is on the marriage cert?

              Jay
              Janet in Yorkshire



              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
                If she was illegitimate, she may not have been born with the surname Church; that could have been the name of a step-father. Where was she in 1911 census and what info is on the marriage cert?

                Jay
                Before her wedding in St. Mary Magdelene, Peckham she lived at 40 King's road with no occupation. She was 23 with her father being a "Thomas Church" deceased but also with no Occupation.

                In 1911 she was living with her husband, a Shipwright, at 115 Drummond Road, Bermondsey.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
                  This is the only Emily Minnie Church born 1885 +/- 1 year that came up in the England and Wales birth indexes

                  620339F8-5676-4957-8839-28FE04FD6271.jpeg
                  Worth getting the birth cert? Peckham where she married is not far by rail from Maidstone.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Did find this census, Emily Church, servant, age 16 born London Peckham, in Peckham, same area as Henry but she just happens to be at 37 St. Mary's Road

                    https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

                    The Nicols family this Emily works for, are still at no. 37 in 1911
                    Elaine

                    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Have been looking to see if I could find anything else, just to note, Charles Edmond Gibson marries Alice Louisa Nichols 1888 (Nichols of 1901) and the Gibsons live at number 40 1911. Checking the electoral roll, they are at that address 1909.
                      Elaine

                      Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                      http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                      http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                      Comment


                        #12
                        So I got the Birth Certificate and it seems to have thrown up more questions. She was born on 17th March 1885 it appears at a Union Workhouse in Linton. However, the mother was from Maidstone and the birth was registered in the district of Marden, a small village nearby. Linton, where the Emily was born and the mother resided, is on the border of Essex and Cambridgeshire.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Have you followed Rosina Church. 1871 living with parents Robert and Jane in Maidstone born Plumstead Has a sister Minnie.

                          1881 Living with her father and a papermill hand still in Maidstone.

                          Not found her after that at the moment.
                          Lin

                          Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Lin Fisher View Post
                            Have you followed Rosina Church. 1871 living with parents Robert and Jane in Maidstone born Plumstead Has a sister Minnie.

                            1881 Living with her father and a papermill hand still in Maidstone.

                            Not found her after that at the moment.
                            I have done some research and I also can't find anything after the 1881 census.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              There is a marriage at ST Peter and Pauls Yalding Kent for Rosina Church spinster OTP and Thomas Simpkins Bat OTP on 23 Sep 1888.

                              Struggling to find them after that sorry.
                              Lin

                              Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Sorry didn't refresh before posting.
                                Lin

                                Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Going backwards a wee bit using details from 1871 census, Jane CHURCH was ms LUDLOW, confirmed in GRO index for some of the children.
                                  Rosina’s birth is:
                                  CHURCH, ROSINA LUDLOW
                                  GRO Reference: 1858 M Quarter in LEWISHAM UNION Volume 01D Page 667

                                  This marriage cert for parents is on ancestry
                                  Robert Church
                                  Male
                                  Marriage
                                  25 Nov 1855
                                  St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich, Greenwich, England
                                  Father William Church
                                  Jane Ludlow
                                  Parish Register

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    I am not finding Rosina and Thomas after their marriage either. Have tried 1891 census and GRO indexes for SIMPKINS and variants births with mms CHURCH. A big fat nada so far but it’s boggling away at me that there are SIMPSON matches with mms CHURCH in Boston, Lincolnshire. Been working my way through the 48 public trees on ancestry that have her parents. So far it seems her father married twice with 2nd wife called Emma but no useful details in the couple of trees that have this, Jane is supposed to have died 1880. Her father died 1915, in 1911 he is an inmate in a mental institution and shown as married and a paper mill labourer.
                                    Nobody so far even has a marriage for Rosina nor a death. Ancestry is being sticky so am stumped for the moment.
                                    As trees seem to be stuck, will go back to FMP and see if I can eliminate the SIMPSON / CHURCH combo in 1891 census. Just in case the surname had a change for some reason.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Nope. Dead end. The SIMPSONS in Boston are Charles and Rose. Born in the area.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        I had done my research on FMP and was going to look at Ancestry. But sure GL has covered everything there so saved me. I also saw all those in Boston but decided it wasn't near enough to Simpkins.
                                        Lin

                                        Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

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