Help with my paternal line. (CLAY)

[Darksecretz]

hmmn from ancestry: [this is relating to the 1851 census]

In addition, the census returns of the following localities have been damaged by water during storage. Most of the damaged pieces are in the area of Manchester. However, through the use of new technology they have now been indexed. The Manchester and Lancashire Family History Society recovered tens of thousands of names working on a small scale to prove the technology. Ancestry.com used forensic and photographic techniques on a large scale to take names from records, which are unreadable by the naked eye because of mold and water damage. The process yielded abt 165,000 names that weren’t previously available.

scroll to bottom to see the info on what is missing/damaged. http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=8860


same applies to 1841 scroll to bottom to see the info on what is missing.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=8978

[Darksecretz]

St. George's, Hulme (near Manchester), baptised on 16 Jan 1845, Mary dau of Robert Clay and Elizabeth Thomason

has anyone tracked Mary at all?

[susan h]

I did find some of the water damaged returns on FMP (didn't look to see if they were also on Ancestry), I did an address search for Commercial St which is the address given by Elizabeth when she married Edmund/Edmond/Edward Lumb in 1849, although I found the address they weren't there. The returns have been type printed so easy to spot, but as some were damaged beyond restoration - maybe we'll never find Elizabeth & Co.

[susan h]

has anyone tracked Mary at all?

I haven't found Mary, Julie. Though I did find a 'maybe;.

[susan h]

without knowing for definite where/when your Robert came from things may well get a little more difficult. Regarding paying for a 'professional' they would only have access to the same indexes/databases that we have, [unless they have extra parish cds/subs which no doubt we all collect as our journey progresses!] ]

I agree with all above. Not all so called 'Professionals' are any more experienced than folks on this forum, that said some are, but in my opinion only worth using if they specialise in a particular area and are prepared to do footwork and look for say headstones etc. Or those experienced in the Military for example.

Unfortunately Robert Clay could have been born anywhere, died anywhere or emigrated. I did notice a fair few Robert Clay's were born in Yorkshire.

[Katarzyna]

How strange and I do apologise.
On the 1851 census if you select Lancashire - Manchester - Hulme there are only 2 Districts as I mentioned in posts #33 and 34.
If you put in Lancashire- Hulme there are about 60 districts to search.!!!
Are there two different Hulmes??

[susan h]

As Elizabeth was married to Edmund Lumb in 1849 I wouldn't expect to find them in Hulme, if they were still in Manchester the Commercial Street area is more probable, or anywhere on the canal network and probably in the north (Edmund was a canal boatman).

[clematised]

http://archive.org/stream/reminiscen...ggoog_djvu.txt I have found relatives in the Hulme area of Manchester and also found this on line book to read about the area around the early to middle 1800s though in the title it gives a false impression as it says 50 years ago.

It talks about the area and the people and all things to do with Hulme and names lots of people from all walks of life.
The book is readable on line in all different forms and I found it easy to read and saved it to my Favourites.
Reminiscences of Manchester fifty years ago (1881)
The person who wrote down the memories wrote them many years before publication, I had it added to the Wikki for Manchester on this Forum and I think there is an old map at the end of the book showing the streets.


Edna

[danielclay]

I agree with all above. Not all so called 'Professionals' are any more experienced than folks on this forum, that said some are, but in my opinion only worth using if they specialise in a particular area and are prepared to do footwork and look for say headstones etc. Or those experienced in the Military for example.

Unfortunately Robert Clay could have been born anywhere, died anywhere or emigrated. I did notice a fair few Robert Clay's were born in Yorkshire.

I never referred to the family researcher as a "Proffesional" at the time I used him last year I was unaware of this forum and the wonderful helpful people on it I had just done all the research myself using ancestry and other online sources and just wanted someone with more experience to verify the work I had done. I did however make sure I did not give him any information other than my grandparents, As I wanted to be sure that he was actually doing the work I paid him for

[Darksecretz]

How strange and I do apologise.
On the 1851 census if you select Lancashire - Manchester - Hulme there are only 2 Districts as I mentioned in posts #33 and 34.
If you put in Lancashire- Hulme there are about 60 districts to search.!!!
Are there two different Hulmes??

Kat, I don't know, though it does seem odd that Hulme is still in Lancashire whether it is manchester or not... :conf:

[Darksecretz]

I never referred to the family researcher as a "Proffesional" at the time I used him last year I was unaware of this forum and the wonderful helpful people on it I had just done all the research myself using ancestry and other online sources and just wanted someone with more experience to verify the work I had done. I did however make sure I did not give him any information other than my grandparents, As I wanted to be sure that he was actually doing the work I paid him for

That's ok Daniel, I wrongly? presumed that you had 'paid' a professional researcher to hunt the information out.

have you any certificates pertaining to your paternal line? do you know if any of the people you do have left any wills at all? [maybe these may name other as yet unknown family members]

don't beat yourself up about not knowing about our forum, we are a friendly bunch and more than often when you post a query you do get a rapid return in replies!

[Darksecretz]

I haven't found Mary, Julie. Though I did find a 'maybe;.

mmm I had a brief look but, didn't find much

[Darksecretz]

How strange and I do apologise.
On the 1851 census if you select Lancashire - Manchester - Hulme there are only 2 Districts as I mentioned in posts #33 and 34.
If you put in Lancashire- Hulme there are about 60 districts to search.!!!
Are there two different Hulmes??

for ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulme

[danielclay]

That's ok Daniel, I wrongly? presumed that you had 'paid' a professional researcher to hunt the information out.

have you any certificates pertaining to your paternal line? do you know if any of the people you do have left any wills at all? [maybe these may name other as yet unknown family members]

don't beat yourself up about not knowing about our forum, we are a friendly bunch and more than often when you post a query you do get a rapid return in replies!

Hi Julie,

I have not sent off for any birth certs yet, But that is something I am going to get the ball rolling on this week, My acestry account is playing up at the moment (Unless I need to pay a higher fee to go further back in time?) It keeps sending me to a subscription screen when I try to look at documents before the 1800's. I'm not sure what package i'm subscribed to but I do pay a monthly fee. How would I go about getting copies of wills? and how would I find out about them?

Cheers

[susan h]

I never referred to the family researcher as a "Proffesional" at the time I used him last year I was unaware of this forum and the wonderful helpful people on it I had just done all the research myself using ancestry and other online sources and just wanted someone with more experience to verify the work I had done. I did however make sure I did not give him any information other than my grandparents, As I wanted to be sure that he was actually doing the work I paid him for

Good for you, Daniel. I'm sure you now realise FTF and it's members' can save your pennies! Members' here are only too happy to try their best to help.

I've not given up on the search and am still trying to find Robert's birth, death and where the heck he came from! I do wonder if he either died outside the Manchester/Lancs area, or he deserted his family and moved abroad. He was described as a Brewer on his marriage certificate - which could cover a few occupations, ie a brewer (owner of a brewery), a brewer working for a brewery, even a brewer of vinegar.

I'll do further searching tomorrow, it's a little late now.

[danielclay]

Good for you, Daniel. I'm sure you now realise FTF and it's members' can save your pennies! Members' here are only too happy to try their best to help.

I've not given up on the search and am still trying to find Robert's birth, death and where the heck he came from! I do wonder if he either died outside the Manchester/Lancs area, or he deserted his family and moved abroad. He was described as a Brewer on his marriage certificate - which could cover a few occupations, ie a brewer (owner of a brewery), a brewer working for a brewery, even a brewer of vinegar.

I'll do further searching tomorrow, it's a little late now.

Very much appreciated Susan, Thank you for your help.

[susan h]

You must bear in mind that a death was registered where the person died, not where they lived, as Robert was described as a brewer he could have travelled to market the 'stuff' he brewed whether it be ale or vinegar.

If Mary was his dau [seems probable] she was baptised in Jan 1845 and no reference made to father being deceased, then Robert must have died between the baptism of Mary and the remarriage of Elizabeth in 1849, presuming of course that Robert did die - didn't desert the family to move abroad, This gives a timeframe for his death of 1845 - 49 maximum. The only deaths registered in the online index are: Sept 1846 Carlisle, Dec 1847 Holbeach, Dec 1848 Westminster, also Wem, at first glance none seem likely, however as I stated earlier deaths were registered where a person died, not where they were from.

[Katarzyna]

Hi Julie,

I have not sent off for any birth certs yet, But that is something I am going to get the ball rolling on this week, My acestry account is playing up at the moment (Unless I need to pay a higher fee to go further back in time?) It keeps sending me to a subscription screen when I try to look at documents before the 1800's. I'm not sure what package i'm subscribed to but I do pay a monthly fee. How would I go about getting copies of wills? and how would I find out about them?

Cheers

It sounds like you are on the Essentials package (UK Census and BMD's only). You would need to upgrade to Premium in order to search ALL UK records which include National Probate Calendar 1858 - 1966 ( info here --- http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1904) and UK Extracted Probate Records 1265- 1975. For Lancashire the records here are mainly pre 1800's.

To order wills -- http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...f-grants-wills

[Darksecretz]

Hi Julie,

I have not sent off for any birth certs yet, But that is something I am going to get the ball rolling on this week, My acestry account is playing up at the moment (Unless I need to pay a higher fee to go further back in time?) It keeps sending me to a subscription screen when I try to look at documents before the 1800's. I'm not sure what package i'm subscribed to but I do pay a monthly fee. How would I go about getting copies of wills? and how would I find out about them?

Cheers

Daniel,

I think that before you go any further that you should think about purchasing the marriage cert of your grandparents [if you don't already have a copy] this will then give you the father of the bride & groom and also any other family that could possibly be family as witness'. once armed with the name of the father, you can then order a b/cert to enable you to work further backwards, [I know that this seems rather pointless, but unless you prove each step of the way you could go VERY wrong and track a completely different family]. Ancestry do have some marriages online which would save you £9.25 for the cost of the cert, please please do NOT order a cert from Ancestry, they charge in the region of £25 for each cert.. [when in fact they only cost £9.25!! direct from the GRO at Southport]

there are a few members that have been bitten by this extortionate price and I would hate for you to be a victim of this!

[margaretmarch]

Hi Julie,

I have not sent off for any birth certs yet, But that is something I am going to get the ball rolling on this week, My acestry account is playing up at the moment (Unless I need to pay a higher fee to go further back in time?) It keeps sending me to a subscription screen when I try to look at documents before the 1800's. I'm not sure what package i'm subscribed to but I do pay a monthly fee. How would I go about getting copies of wills? and how would I find out about them?

Cheers

Don't buy certs from ancestry they charge £25 when in fact you can order them yourself for £9.25 here https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...ates/Login.asp. You will need to register for the first use - click on 'Register as individual' underneath the submit button.

Margaret