elusive marriage & dodgy IGI records

[JBee]

In 1901 I've found a missing hubby (also called Frank) living with another woman as her husband ie using her name - what confirms it is the youngest child has his name.

The missing hubby dies in 1908 and the death is registered in his real name by the stepson!!!

So could the missing Frank Smith be using his new partners surname?

[karensainsbury]

Thanks anyway, Christine.

That's interesting, JBee, perhaps I could try looking for a Francis Gaylor. If he'd just got out the nick for abuse of a pc he might have been wise to go under a different name for a while!

[Treefinder]

Hello all,

after a long absence I am having a go at my most frustrating line.

I am trying to find the marriage of my great-grandparents in a desperate attempt to go back a further generation.

Their names are Francis Smith & Henrietta Flaacke (Grandad's birth cert).Their first child was born c1881. I can't find them in BMDs & can only find a really dodgy submitted IGI record which gives marriage as "c1882 England", and also gives their dates of birth as 1862 (both) whereas the 1901 census gives them as c1852 & c1853 respectively.

Any bright ideas, anyone?:(

I have stumbled across this discussion and thought I could shed some light. Above is the very first post which kicked it off.

Henrietta Ann Haacke was my grt-grt grandmother, and I am researching the tree along with my 2nd cousin who is also a direct descendant. Through the 82 posts, you worked a lot of it out, but here's a summary.

Henrietta Ann Haacke was born Apr/Jun 1852 Shoreditch 1c129. The Haackes (I believe it's pronounced Hawker by the British family) originally came from the Hannover region of Northern Germany. The London Haackes had been here since at least 1812, so it would be stretching things somewhat to call Henrietta Ann "German". But no-one has been able to trace the first emigre, Henrich Haacke (d 1851), back to where exactly he came from in Germany, which is really frustrating.

In Henrietta Ann Haacke married Henry Joseph Gaylor in 1872. They possibly had a daughter who died called Henrietta Ann Gaylor (1873-77), but the evidence suggests that their relationship subsequently broke down.

Henrietta Ann Gaylor nee Haacke went to live with Francis Smith and seems to have had 3 boys (William (b 22 Oct 1880); Francis, whose 1883 birth certificate appears in this discussion; and Alfred). I believe I have found baptisms (St Chad Haggerston) for William and Francis in the London records on Ancestry.

Henry Joseph Gaylor went to live with Elizabeth Harrison and had a separate family.

There are 2 Public Member trees on Ancestry which clearly show this split because each one has dealt with Henry Joseph Gaylor's relationships separately.

On the one hand, the "Armstrong_2009-02-25" tree has Henry Joseph Gaylor's 2nd family with Elizabeth Harrison here:

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/996...son/-717301885.

There's also a (free) less detailed version here, from the Cakebread clan:

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=cakebread&id=I1530

On the other hand, Henry Joseph Gaylor's actual marriage in 1872 and first family is in the "DOE Family Tree" (DOE is case sensitive) here:

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/12349418/person/644089260?ssrc=

I suppose both trees should bind together but they actually have been researched as 2 separate families.

Now Henrietta Ann Gaylor had a daughter called Henrietta Elizabeth in 1889. She was named Gaylor for registration, and baptised as the daughter of Henry Joseph Gaylor (see the London baptism records on Ancestry) - even though Henrietta Ann appears to have had 3 sons in the meantime by Francis Smith and her real husband (Henry Joseph Gaylor) had a daughter around this time called Edith with his 2nd partner, Elizabeth Harrison. For whatever reason, Henrietta Ann made a decision to name her daughter Gaylor.

Also, Henrietta Ann has not been found in the 1881 Census, appears on her own with her daughter in the 1891 Census (11 Basing Place, South Shoreditch), and first appears with Francis in 1901 at 36 Ravenscroft Street, Bethnal Green.

This perhaps points to a tentative conclusion that she may not have been entirely comfortable reporting to the authorities that she was with Francis Smith.

In the discussion above, it was mooted that perhaps Francis Smith was in prison in 1889 - I have no proof either way, but it is a possibility, and is worth exploring. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest Smith and Gaylor were the same man, which I think someone suggested.

Hope this is of use/ interest and thanks to everyone who contributed.

[Beefybeef]

I'm 12 years late, but I just had to register here and respond to this thread, hoping anyone who participated sees it. There is so much information here directly relating to me that I didn't want to start a new thread and explain it all from scratch.

The Francis and Henrietta in question here have stumped me for years, and I'm actually amazed I never came across these forums before in all my searching! I do have some information that may help some of you, such as details on Alfred John Smith (one of Francis & Henrietta's Sons and my Great Grandad). I don't have much information other than relating to Alfred and his offspring though - I didn't even know he had siblings and neither did anyone in my family. I do have a definite marriage certificate for Alfred John Smith and Lilian Rowland, giving Francis & Henrietta's names. It looks like Henrietta Hackey, definitely H and not FL, with a Y at the end. Probably a mis-spelling somehow to have a Y at the end as there's enough evidence from all of you that it was actually Haacke.

What I've read in these pages will be a big help and in the coming days I'll go through it all in more detail. I'm especially grateful to the last poster before this, which nobody replied to oddly, as it gives fantastic information. I will just say that several details of the Ancestry family trees are wrong though, so I don't have much confidence in those unless exact sources are stated.

Hope to hear from someone in the same family soon, with any further updates that may help with any of the unsolved mysteries of this family and the German connection.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Welcome to the forum, Beefybeef.

I'm presuming you entered a name of interest into the search box of your browser, waited to explore the results and came across an "old" thread posted on the FTF site???

Blanket google searching (for people and locations) is one of the strategies I use on a regular basis and I'm really pleased that the discovery of this thread has been a useful find for you.

[cbcarolyn]

Hi an welcome to the forum. People stop by and then don't return, or do not have their alerts switched on, or change email address.

12 years is a long time but you never know!

Maybe one of the 2 posters that have family connections might see your reply
@karensainsbury
Treefinder

[Beefybeef]

Welcome to the forum, Beefybeef.

I'm presuming you entered a name of interest into the search box of your browser, waited to explore the results and came across an "old" thread posted on the FTF site???

Blanket google searching (for people and locations) is one of the strategies I use on a regular basis and I'm really pleased that the discovery of this thread has been a useful find for you.

Thanks for the welcome. Yes that is how I came across this thread. I was actually surprised to find that the OP on this thread asked the exact same question I have been pondering over for years, and actually it was nice to find that it wasn't just my lack of researching skills preventing me from moving forwards. I have been working through some of the information I found here and have a few more answers.....although that's also given me more questions! I'll get into more details if anyone from the family asks.

[Beefybeef]

Hi an welcome to the forum. People stop by and then don't return, or do not have their alerts switched on, or change email address.

12 years is a long time but you never know!

Maybe one of the 2 posters that have family connections might see your reply
@karensainsbury
Treefinder

Thanks so much Carolyn for the welcome. I didn't actually subscribe to this thread (I didn't realise I would need to) so I've done that now and hope I'll see notifications of any new posts in future.

I've been stuck with another side of my family too and some day I'll probably ask about it here. I have discussed it several times elsewhere and have never found all the answers I need.