elusive marriage & dodgy IGI records

[Christine in Herts]

Maybe it's down to the basic presumption (which is usually applied) that the child of a married woman is the child of her husband.

Christine

[Olde Crone Holden]

Or even less than that! Maybe she had fallen out with Mr Smith, maybe Henrietta was not Mr Smith's child.

Either way, her name was Mrs Gayler and so that is what the child would be registered as. I suspect there will be no father's name on the BC.

Also - don't put too much weight on what people SAID on census returns. The enumerator was often someone they knew and they wouldn't want him knowing all their family secrets, or maybe he knew Mr Smith and ASSUMED she was Mrs Smith and all the children little Smiths!

As she was head of household in 1891, then she would be the one to give the information and her name was of course Mrs Gayler.

I have one family in my tree who are going by a completely different name in 1861. The wrong name is the name of the people who had lived in the house previously for about 80 years! In this case I suspect the enumerator didn't fill in all the details at the time, but did it from memory later on "Ah, the Smith's house...."

OC

[maudarby]

Hi
Personally I would get the 1872 marriage cert for Henry & Henrietta, because it is so close to the 1871 census they may both have been living at home.
Address for Henry (the french polisher) 5 Devonshire Buildings, Shoreditch.
Address for Henrietta 94 Curlain (poss Curtain) Rd Shoreditch.
Moggie

[karensainsbury]

No wonder OH & I have never married - I clearly come from a long line of disreputable ancestors all living out of wedlock - at least I can blame it on the genes now!

[Mary from Italy]

Ditto

[karensainsbury]

Moggie - I've just ordered it. I'll let you all know what it says when it arrives!

[maudarby]

Hi
Have you found Francis & Henrietta in 1911?
Moggie

[karensainsbury]

Hi Moggie

No, nor in 1881, which is around the time their eldest child was born & also when Henry Gaylor is living with his new wife, so presumably they must have been together by then.

Looking at Grandad's birth cert again, Henrietta just put a cross, rather than signing her name, whcih suggests she was illiterate, so I suppose if people were mistranscribing her name, she probably wouldn't have been aware of the fact anyway, would she?

Another thought, haven't managed to get in touch with Mum yet, but she's always said her uncles used to refer to Henrietta's family as the "Von Ackies". Maybe they were actually saying the "Von Haackies", with the "Von" humourously added just because they were German. I must find out whether Mum knew her as Henrietta Flaacke or just read that name later on Grandad's birth cert.

[maudarby]

Hi
I can't find them in 1881 or 1911. I did find her parents (Hacke) in Hackney in 1881 but Henrietta wasn't living with them. Strangely enough her mother was also listed in 1881 with her married daughter in Shoreditch.
Moggie

[karensainsbury]

As Francis Smith senior is AWOL in 1891 I've looked through all the Francis Smiths listed as brother/lodger/visitor etc & I can't find him either.

[jenoco]

I can't find him either. There's a Francis Smith on the Criminal Registers on Ancestry. He was given 18 months in 1889, but he should have been out by the time of the 1891 census.

[karensainsbury]

Good grief-that would explain why he is not with his wife & family.

I'll go & have a look, Jenny.

[karensainsbury]

Ah, just realised you need premium or worldwide mmembership to access the criminal register.

Is there any kind person who has access to these who could look him up for me?

[Christine in Herts]

The trial was 26 Aug 1889.

Add 18 months onto that, and you get 26 Feb 1891 - so it's quite fine, even if allowance were made for any time already spent in gaol.

Christine

[karensainsbury]

Hi Christine,

does that mean he would have been out by the time of the census?

[Christine in Herts]

Hi Christine,

does that mean he would have been out by the time of the census?

Arithmetically, I'd have said so - but not long... and there's nothing to say he didn't have to go back in again for some reason, if he were disposed to imprisonable actions.

Christine

[karensainsbury]

Thanks for your help, Christine.

Do the records give any info to help identify the offender eg age or address, & do they indicate what the offence was?!

[Christine in Herts]

Tried at Clerkenwell.

Attempt to steal from the person and a∫sault on a police Constable while in execution of Duty.

I wondered whether he might have been the one who assaulted my gx2-uncle, but that had happened 20 years before. James Christmas was probably retired by then.

Christine

[karensainsbury]

Oh dear, Christine, I hope that wasn't him, my family aren't exactly covering themselves in glory as it is, without beating up & robbing policemen!

[Christine in Herts]

I am wondering whether any of the George BENNETTs might be mine. They could explain some gaps in the man's history. The trouble is that the name just isn't rare, and there's nothing to narrow them down, in many cases: no age / DoB, no address, no NoK.

Christine

PS - I wonder if that one figures in The Times Digital Archive?