Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Samuel Warren of Derby.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Samuel Warren of Derby.

    Samuel Warren was born in Holbrook Derbyshire to Mark and Hannah Warren, and was baptised on 2 Dec 1860 in Holbrook. I have him in the censuses until 1881. There he is living in Litchurch with his widowed mother, 2 brothers and 2 nieces. There is a possibility that he marries in 1883 to Martha Jane Whitehouse. The marriage is not a success as in January 1884 he is accused of assaulting Martha Jane, and by then they were living apart. I have found 2 children who could be theirs - Charles, born 1887 December Q in Derby, and Edith Rachel b June Q 1889 in Stoke on Trent. I can find a baptism for Charles Warren in Derby in 1887, but he only has a mother (Martha) mentioned.

    After this I lose track of all of them. I have tried looking for Martha and the children by themselves, and without surnames in case she remarried but haven't found anything, nor any likely death records. Any suggestions?

    1881 census
    https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=try&h=2697125

    Derbyshire Registrars Marriage Index
    https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcr...F199558094%2F1

    Charles Warren baptism
    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...ue&pId=3933144
    Linda


    My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

    #2
    I did have a hunt about and drew a blank, got a bit excited about one that died in Chesterfield, as some of his children were born in derbyshire, and thought maybe he was fibbing about his birthplace, but he wasn't!
    Carolyn
    Family Tree site

    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for having a look Carolyn - I have thought maybe the family went abroad, but can't find anything there either. Ah well, back to the drawing board.
      Linda


      My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

      Comment


        #4
        so odd I thought the same, but can't find them anywhere. I didn't look in the papers, you found something there, odd that he had children after the newspaper report.
        Carolyn
        Family Tree site

        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
          odd that he had children after the newspaper report.
          If the baptism of Charles is correct then the children were Martha's, but not Samuel's, as he is not named.

          The address for his baptism is 85 Russell Street, Derby, and living there in 1891 are John & Pheobe (sic) Whitehouse, and their 17 year old son William. At the same address are:
          Charles Gardner 38 b Evenlode, Worcs
          Martha 25 wife b Rotherham
          Charles 3 b Derby
          Alice 2 b Allentown, Derbyshire
          Annie 2m b Derby

          Baptised 24 Aug 1892 - William s/o Charles & Martha Jane Gardner, 86 Russell Street

          Charles may be Charles Warren, and Alice is possibly Edith Rachel, but I cant readily find a birth registration for Annie or William.

          By 1901 they are at 34, Graham Street, Derby as Gardiner. Martha is 33 & born Cradley, Staffordshire! There is an additional son, George aged 3, and this is possibly his birth:

          GARDNER, GEORGE mmn WHITEHOUSE GRO Reference: 1898 M Quarter in SHARDLOW Volume 07B Page 504

          Baptism at Osmaston by Derby 10 Jan 1898 - George s/o Charles & Martha Jane Gardner, Osmaston

          Comment


            #6
            Following on from the above, in 1911 at 102 Russell St Derby:

            Martha Gardner 44 b Rotherham
            Charles 23
            William 18
            George 13
            Lily 7
            Phoebe Whitehouse, 75, mother b Wostershire (sic)

            Lily's birth: GARDINER, LILY MAY mmn WHITEHOUSE GRO Reference: 1903 J Quarter in DERBY Volume 07B Page 646

            ADDED: Charles Sr appears to be in the workhouse, aged 58, Single, Ironworks General Labourer, b Gloucs

            Comment


              #7
              Have you ruled out the Samuel Warren who died Belper Registration District in 1916, aged 59 (born c1857)? Although 'your' Samuel was baptised in 1860, he's aged 3 on the 1861 census.

              ADDED: Scrap that, he's the one born Turnditch, s/o Samuel & Mary

              Comment


                #8
                no idea why I didn't think of following up the baptism address

                wonder why Edith changed.

                what a great find.
                Last edited by cbcarolyn; 01-03-21, 07:26.
                Carolyn
                Family Tree site

                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                Comment


                  #9
                  there seems to be a few more children, census says she had 11 children, 5 alive


                  GARDNER, CLARA WHITEHOUSE
                  GRO Reference: 1894 D Quarter in DERBY Volume 07B Page 548
                  GARDNER, PHOEBE FLORENCE WHITEHOUSE
                  GRO Reference: 1896 M Quarter in DERBY Volume 07B Page 534
                  GARDNER, BERTHA WHITEHOUSE
                  GRO Reference: 1898 M Quarter in SHARDLOW Volume 07B Page 503
                  GARDNER, JOHN THOMAS WHITEHOUSE
                  GRO Reference: 1898 D Quarter in SHARDLOW Volume 07B Page 475
                  GARDINER, HENRY WHITEHOUSE
                  GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in SHARDLOW Volume 07B Page 514
                  Last edited by cbcarolyn; 01-03-21, 08:02.
                  Carolyn
                  Family Tree site

                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Name: Samuel Warren
                    Death Age: 77
                    Birth Date: abt 1860
                    Registration Date: Jan 1937
                    [Feb 1937]
                    [Mar 1937]
                    Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
                    Registration District: Chesterfield
                    Inferred County: Derbyshire
                    Volume: 7b
                    Page: 1047

                    https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

                    Julie
                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                    .......I find dead people

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Not seeing much more, sorry.
                      Julie
                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                      .......I find dead people

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Been having a look at the Gardners - looks like Martha and Charles didn't marry (not surprising if she was still married to Samuel.) Unfortunately as Samuel Warren is a reasonably common name I don't think I will be able to definitively say which one is mine - maybe the 1921 census when it is available will shed more light. Thanks Carolyn, Teasie and Julie.
                        Linda


                        My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I did wonder about the Samuel Warren in the census in Grass Valley, Nevada, California in 1901. Says he was born England & emigrated 1885, although he gives his birth as May 1859. Married Elizabeth Simmons in Colorado in 1890 and they had a son William John Warren born c1891, Colorado. By 1910 Elizabeth (transcribed on Ancestry as Warner) is back in Colorado without Samuel, and by 1920 describes herself as divorced.

                          There is a record on Ancestry which seems to be taken from Naturalisation records, and this time he says he arrived 1888 or 1883. The Naturalisation is not online, but the notes on Ancestry say "Extracted from original records located at the Colorado State Archives in Denver. Place of birth is also provided." The records appear to have been compiled by the Foothills Genealogical Society of Colorado under the reference Jefferson County, Colorado Natrualization Records1862-1920 , so it may be worth seeing if they can rule him in/out by reference to his PoB.

                          I think he may be back in California in 1930, aged 70 & a coal miner, but now says emigrated 1882, although I cant find him in the interim years, or his death.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks Teasie will go have a look.
                            Linda


                            My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by teasie View Post
                              I did wonder about the Samuel Warren in the census in Grass Valley, Nevada, California in 1901. Says he was born England & emigrated 1885, although he gives his birth as May 1859. Married Elizabeth Simmons in Colorado in 1890 and they had a son William John Warren born c1891, Colorado. By 1910 Elizabeth (transcribed on Ancestry as Warner) is back in Colorado without Samuel, and by 1920 describes herself as divorced.

                              There is a record on Ancestry which seems to be taken from Naturalisation records, and this time he says he arrived 1888 or 1883. The Naturalisation is not online, but the notes on Ancestry say "Extracted from original records located at the Colorado State Archives in Denver. Place of birth is also provided." The records appear to have been compiled by the Foothills Genealogical Society of Colorado under the reference Jefferson County, Colorado Natrualization Records1862-1920 , so it may be worth seeing if they can rule him in/out by reference to his PoB.

                              I think he may be back in California in 1930, aged 70 & a coal miner, but now says emigrated 1882, although I cant find him in the interim years, or his death.
                              I had him and his death a possible, but thought he couldn't have gone as early as 1882. But if you team up with the Nevada guy in 1885 then it could be a possibility. I had also dismissed the Nevada and the LA men as the same as he said single - didn't occur that it would be as modern as being divorced and would be 'single'.

                              I did look for crossings and found none, I think a few to Canada? can't remember now

                              this is the 1930 census https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...1?pId=90631991
                              Last edited by cbcarolyn; 02-03-21, 18:39.
                              Carolyn
                              Family Tree site

                              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Not the California man - found his death cert and he comes from Penzance. Does confirm he was married to Elizabeth Simmons, but says he is now widowed.


                                https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...A1%3AQGKL-TPNF
                                Linda


                                My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Oh well, I guess ruling people out is better than leaving them with a question mark.

                                  Comment

                                  Working...
                                  X