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    Occasional copy: C

    Found this on the GRO birth index - what does it mean, please?
    The birth is indexed twice - Q4 1907 with the above note, again Q1 1908. Same volume , different page numbers.
    No mother's maiden name for either entry.

    1911 census the child is with a couple who I believe were his maternal grandparents, although he is recorded as "son."
    Loads of Ancestry trees with this couple recorded as parents of the boy - IMO he probably belonged to their eldest daughter, but was brought up by the couple.
    "Believed" grandfather recorded as parent/guardian on school record.

    A few more attribute him to another male relative and wife, who did have a child with the same forename, indexed 1906 and with relevant mmn. I'm quite sure these researchers are wrong - this lad was recorded with his parents and siblings in 1911 census.

    A couple of tree owners agree with me and have eldest daughter of the grandparents as the mother. (I know getting the BC is probably the only way of certifying parentage but as he is quite a distant twig on my tree, I don't really want to buy the BC at present.)

    So I'm hoping the phrase in the index may shed some light on the parentage of the lad.

    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

    #2
    "Occasional Copy" means an entry copied to GRO outside of the usual quarterly reports - can be for a correction or many other reasons.

    If the two entries in 1907 and 1908 are the same child, then that implies a re-registration of some sort, but without seeing the entry in the index difficult to say, and impossible to know why.

    Without buying a certificate, especially on a complex entry like this seems to be, you are working on guesswork and assumption.

    I spent hours the other day correcting a tree that had gone wrong because someone assumed that because there was a maiden name shown in the birth index, the parents were married ( wrong !).
    I am a professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, based in Buckinghamshire - please contact me for any help/advice or research via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
    Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

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      #3
      Thank you Antony.
      Janet in Yorkshire



      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

      Comment


        #4
        On the 1911 census the couple who said they were the parents of Ernest (birth registration indexed Q41907 & Q1 1908) declared that they had had 8 children - 4 still living and 4 deceased. Before her marriage the wife's surname was Wilson. I have found 8 children for the couple - Charles b 1888, Lilian b 1889, John b 1896 and Ethel b 1892, all still living in 1911. 4 more children had died - Florence 1893 - 1895, Doris 1897 - 1898, Albert Ernest 1900 - 1901 and Frederick Ernest 1904 - 1907. IF they were telling the truth, then Ernest was NOT their child. I think he probably belonged to Lilian, but, as Antony has rightly pointed out, I will need to get the BC to either confirm or negate my theory. One for next month, perhaps. Lilian married in 1910 and had moved out of the paternal home when census was taken in 1911.Unfortunately this branch of the family didn't go in for baptisms so no PR entry. Also Ernest emigrated to Brisbane Australia in 1926, where he eventually married, so no easily obtainable marriage cert!
        Janet in Yorkshire



        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

        Comment


          #5
          I know he's just a twig, but that queensland marriage would be a similar price to an english cert and have double the info.

          did he die in queensland? Death index will give you parents named on that record.

          Comment


            #6
            could be a newspaper announcement for the Aus marriage, might say his parent name, bit of a long shot? Any will from Lilian? Shame no one else has got the cert

            You have not said surname so couldn't search
            Carolyn
            Family Tree site

            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
              could be a newspaper announcement for the Aus marriage, might say his parent name, bit of a long shot? Any will from Lilian? Shame no one else has got the cert

              You have not said surname so couldn't search
              Sorry, Carolyn. The post was intended originally as a general query about the ref on the GRO index, which I'd never come across before.

              The child concerned was Ernest Hepton Claxton, as opposed to Ernest Claxton registered 1906 mmn Foots. All 3 birth registrations were in Yorkshire in Sculcoates registration district. - I have info about EHC's guardian/grandfather and also about Ernest b1906, so please don't waste any of your precious time digging into the main characters, as it were. I realise Hepton could be a hint, but throughout three generations this family were also all very keen on using former surnames of mothers as forenames. The grandfather of Ernest b1906 was Harrison Claxton and the guardian/suspected grandfather of Ernest Hepton was Allison Claxton, son of yet another Allison. There was also Lovel Claxton, Oman Claxton and Simpson Claxton, all maiden surnames of former Claxton brides.

              Kyle, not yet verified when EHC died as the only info I've had to go on so far has been on Ancestry trees. My main aim was firstly to try and ensure that he was linked to my tree, and if so, how. On the online trees there has been some confusion between the two Ernests.
              Janet in Yorkshire



              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

              Comment


                #8
                Details from Queensland BMD for Ernest Hepton Claxton:

                Marriage entry

                Death entry

                You can find his burial details at Pinnaroo Lawn Cemetery here: Brisbane City Council Cemeteries Search
                Last edited by Vivian; 09-02-21, 23:57. Reason: Adding burial details

                Comment


                  #9
                  Seems the grandparents are listed as his parents. He may never have known the truth, or covered it up.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    @ Vivian - thank you so much, that is really useful to know that he regarded his grandparents as his parents.

                    @ Kyle - my thoughts exactly! Growing up in a small rural community, I know it was quite common for out of wedlock children to be brought up by grandparents, who they regarded as Mum and Dad.

                    Yesterday I looked through my notes about the other children of the grandparents, Allison and Mary. One of their sons died after being discharged from army service during WW1. Amongst the documents I found the sheet giving details of the relatives of the soldier - parents Allison and Mary, 3 siblings recorded but Ernest Hepton was NOT included. So IMO the really strong candidate for EHC's parentage is Allison & Mary's elder daughter Lilian.

                    Will have to get the cert (s) - will try for PDF of the original registration of Q4 1907, in case I also have to get the later re-registration copy.
                    Janet in Yorkshire



                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
                      @ Kyle - my thoughts exactly! Growing up in a small rural community, I know it was quite common for out of wedlock children to be brought up by grandparents, who they regarded as Mum and Dad.
                      My late mother and OH's late mother were both in the same position.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The initial birth cert for Ernest Hepton Claxton arrived this afternoon. The mother is named as Lilian Claxton (daughter of Allison & Mary) a general domestic servant of 39 Haddon Street. The Haddon St address was the home of Allison and Mary, Ernest was born in the local Union workhouse and the columns for the names and profession of the father are left blank. There is an addendum on the right of the cert stating that it was an incorrect entry, reregistered on 18th March.

                        It has confirmed my theory that Allison and Mary were the GRANDparents of Ernest and that his mother was their daughter Lilian. If funds allow, I may later purchase the second document in order to see why the information needed to be re-registered. However, I am happy with the purchase and consider the information very useful and well worth the money.
                        Janet in Yorkshire



                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                        Comment


                          #13
                          that was a good result.
                          Carolyn
                          Family Tree site

                          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thank you Carolyn
                            Janet in Yorkshire



                            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Who was the informant ....?
                              I am a professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, based in Buckinghamshire - please contact me for any help/advice or research via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
                              Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by AntonyM View Post
                                Who was the informant ....?
                                It was Lilian, Antony. I must admit, I had wondered who it would be and if that could have been significant to the re-registration.
                                The addendum to the certificate is "Incorrect entry. Registered correctly on the 18th March at no 42 on the authority of the Registrar General. 18th March 1908." The original registration was made on 16th Nov 1907. Ernest was declared as born 6th November 1907.

                                Wearing your former registrar's hat, I would welcome your observations. As I said in post 12, the documentation I received confirmed that Allison and Mary were not the birth parents of Ernest, which is all I needed to know at this point. However, like most people doing genealogy, I would like to know more, so will probably get the re-registration document at some point, even if it turns out to be just a case of the dob being incorrect. Could be info of greater significance, of course. Lilian did marry eventually in 1910, but her husband was not surnamed Hepton. The marriage (and Lilian's place of residence in 1910) took place in Bridlington, where Lilian and her siblings were born, before the family moved to Hull in the late 1890's.
                                Janet in Yorkshire



                                Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  I asked, because one of the reasons for a re-registration would be if the informant wasn't qualified to register the birth - but the mother is who you would expect so it doesn't appear to be that.

                                  Sounds an odd one, and you need to get the second certificate for any sort of explanation (if there is one). If you want to send me the image you have, I can see if there is anything at all on that which might be a hint ( info@chalfontresearch.co.uk).

                                  Most errors on a birth entry, including the dob, can be dealt with by a correction, even if the more serious ones need permission from the Registrar General, so I'd be interested to see what it was that needed a new re-registration to be done. A re-registration at that time would normally only be because of fraudulent or invented information, an unqualified informant or something like that.

                                  I suppose one possibility is that the registrar sought permission for a significant correction, but then in error did it as a re-registration, but you can only tell by comparing the two entries.
                                  I am a professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, based in Buckinghamshire - please contact me for any help/advice or research via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
                                  Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    The husband of my Great Aunt was illegitimate and his birth certificate correctly gives the woman who was his mother but the informant was the mother’s mother and her relationship qualification is given as grandmother. However, some months later, there was a correction made. The word grandmother was scored out - she had later denied that she was in fact the child’s granny. Yet on the two censuses after the child was born, he is living with that same woman and her husband as their grandson! Where the mother went is still a mystery.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Thank you Antony. I have mailed the image to you and would be grateful for any suggestions you feel able to offer.
                                      I'm sure you're right and that I need to get a copy of the re-registration to see how and what information differs from on the original entry - I hope it's not simply a spelling correction!
                                      It will be into March before the PDF of the March 1908 document becomes available for download.
                                      Janet in Yorkshire



                                      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
                                        The husband of my Great Aunt was illegitimate and his birth certificate correctly gives the woman who was his mother but the informant was the mother’s mother and her relationship qualification is given as grandmother. However, some months later, there was a correction made. The word grandmother was scored out - she had later denied that she was in fact the child’s granny. Yet on the two censuses after the child was born, he is living with that same woman and her husband as their grandson! Where the mother went is still a mystery.
                                        GL, I first encountered Ernest on several trees on Ancestry, all claiming he was the youngest child of Allison and Mary. I was pretty sure he wasn't as I'd investigated the couple as thoroughly as I could, some years ago, using PR, newspapers etc in both the county record office and the local studies library. 1911 census and a school admission register showed that he was in their care, but I didn't think that they were his birth parents. Elder daughter seemed a likely bet.
                                        Janet in Yorkshire



                                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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