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    #21
    Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
    I think this is Ann’s death in 1891.
    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....%26district%3D

    and that this is Michael’s death in 1890
    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....%26district%3D

    Informant for both is John Heffernan who is Michael’s son, but Ann’s stepson - so it looks like Michael has more children by an earlier wife...

    Christine
    This is amazing, thank you. It always blows my mind how you all find stuff so quickly that I've spent so long looking for haha. Now to find who Michael might have married before Ann.

    Comment


      #22
      Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
      Did anyone notice that on the pages of the baptismal register where Willaim's entry is, the surname Heffernan appears quite a few times. A Heffernan family must have been well known in church.
      Lots of the baptisms were carried out by P Heffernan. Possibly a relation? Sometimes a first name is given - I haven’t examined closely but it might be Pierce/Pierse.

      Christine
      Researching:
      HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

      Comment


        #23
        I think this is probably the death of informant son/stepson John Heffernan - informant is his wife, another Ellen.
        https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....83/4701565.pdf

        The John Heffernan who marries an Ellen Keating in 1874 is not him - different father.
        (I’ve only been looking at Heffernan info registered in Dungarvan as that is the nearest registration town for Vicarstown/Modelligo parish.)

        If the age if 50 is correct, he was born circa 1843, which would account for why I couldn’t find a baptism for him - so can’t find first wife’s name via that route, unfortunately.
        Wonder where he was getting a pension from? Could he have been a soldier too?
        Christine
        Researching:
        HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

        Comment


          #24
          Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
          I think this is probably the death of informant son/stepson John Heffernan - informant is his wife, another Ellen.
          https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....83/4701565.pdf

          The John Heffernan who marries an Ellen Keating in 1874 is not him - different father.
          (I’ve only been looking at Heffernan info registered in Dungarvan as that is the nearest registration town for Vicarstown/Modelligo parish.)

          If the age if 50 is correct, he was born circa 1843, which would account for why I couldn’t find a baptism for him - so can’t find first wife’s name via that route, unfortunately.
          Wonder where he was getting a pension from? Could he have been a soldier too?
          Christine
          I've no idea if he was a solder. There's a few John Heffernans with army records. It's a much more common name than I thought it'd be when searching.

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
            I think this is probably the death of informant son/stepson John Heffernan - informant is his wife, another Ellen.
            https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....83/4701565.pdf

            The John Heffernan who marries an Ellen Keating in 1874 is not him - different father.
            (I’ve only been looking at Heffernan info registered in Dungarvan as that is the nearest registration town for Vicarstown/Modelligo parish.)

            If the age if 50 is correct, he was born circa 1843, which would account for why I couldn’t find a baptism for him - so can’t find first wife’s name via that route, unfortunately.
            Wonder where he was getting a pension from? Could he have been a soldier too?
            Christine
            I think this is John Heffernan marrying Ellen Corbett in 1887 in Modelligo Catholic Church. Reg district is Lismore.
            https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....97/5937493.pdf

            Occupation is caretaker. He’s a widower, so will have a look for first wife!

            Christine
            Researching:
            HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

            Comment


              #26
              Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
              That makes sense. I couldn’t find a Bag or variant in Vicarstown on 1901 or 1911 censuses but there are Heffernan and variants. Have added in House number 1 in 1901 because in 1911 part of what is likely this family are now in Vicarstown South with a Heffernan servant. Looks like father has died and the brothers have moved house. You can see the “all information” in the actual images at http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

              Residents of a house 1 in Vicarstown North (Modelligo, Waterford)

              Show all information
              Kiely Patrick 60 Male Head of Family Catholic
              Kiely Michael 30 Male Son Catholic
              Kiely Patrick 28 Male Son Catholic
              Kiely John 24 Male Son Catholic
              Walsh Margret 20 Female Servant Catholic
              Walsh Noragh 10 Female Servant Catholic
              Morrisey Thomas 60 Male Servant Catholic
              1901 Residents of a house 2 in Vicarstown North (Modelligo, Waterford)

              Show all information
              Cullinane Michael 38 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic
              Cullinane Mary 60 Female Wife Roman Catholic
              Mahony Maggie 18 Female Relative Roman Catholic
              1901 Residents of a house 3 in Vicarstown North (Modelligo, Waterford)

              Show all information
              Heffernan Ellen 50 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic
              Heffernan Kate 12 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
              Heffernan Hanora 11 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
              Heffernan Ellen 9 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
              Heffernan Michael 8 Male Son Roman Catholic
              1911 Residents of a house 1 in Vicarstown, North (Modelligo, Waterford)

              Show all information
              Kiely John 32 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic
              Kiely Michael 41 Male Brother Roman Catholic
              Kiely Patrick 38 Male Brother Roman Catholic
              Hoffernan Michael 18 Male Servant Roman Catholic
              1911 Residents of a house 2 in Vicarstown, North (Modelligo, Waterford)

              Show all information
              Heffernane Ellen 60 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic
              Heffernane Mary 21 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
              Heffernane Ellen 20 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
              1911 Residents of a house 1 in Vicarstown, South (Modelligo, Waterford)

              Show all information
              Hickey Patrick 51 Male Head of Family Catholic
              Hickey Margaret 44 Female Wife Catholic
              Hickey James 18 Male Son Catholic
              Hickey John 17 Male Son Catholic
              Hickey Bridget 16 Female Daughter Catholic
              Hickey Richard 14 Male Son Catholic
              Hickey Thomas 12 Male Son Catholic
              Hickey Catherine 11 Female Daughter Catholic
              Hickey Margaret 9 Female Daughter Catholic
              Hickey Maurice 7 Male Son Catholic
              Hickey Mary 2 Female Daughter Catholic
              Cahill Patrick 65 Female Servant Catholic
              Heffernane Norah 22 Male Servant Catholic
              Could this be John's widow Ellen? It makes sense with her being widowed or am I clutching at straws.

              Comment


                #27
                Found the first marriage in Modelligo in 1884 to Catherine Hackett. His age is given as 34 which would give birth around 1850, but as noted upthread, I couldn’t find a baptism for him so I suspect he was probably older. In my experience, Irish ages can vary wildly from record to record! The witness Margaret Heffernan
                https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....20/5989730.pdf

                Poor Catherine didn’t last long, dying in 1886
                https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....57/4791941.pdf

                She is recorded as wife of an army pensioner.

                Christine
                Researching:
                HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
                  Found the first marriage in Modelligo in 1884 to Catherine Hackett. His age is given as 34 which would give birth around 1850, but as noted upthread, I couldn’t find a baptism for him so I suspect he was probably older. In my experience, Irish ages can vary wildly from record to record! The witness Margaret Heffernan
                  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....20/5989730.pdf

                  Poor Catherine didn’t last long, dying in 1886
                  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....57/4791941.pdf

                  She is recorded as wife of an army pensioner.

                  Christine
                  You are a machine. Thank you so much for all of this. There is no way I would have ever found this, I've never delved in to Irish records before now.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    I had a look at the Griffiths Valuation for Heffernans in Vicarstown. County Waterford was surveyed 1848-1851. The only Heffernan in Vicarstown is a Margaret Heffernan.
                    http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/...width=&height=

                    I would hazard a guess that she could be Michael Heffernan’s widowed mother. To confirm this, you would need access to the Griffiths Revision books to track who the tenancy passed to. Unfortunately, at the moment, you can only access these in person at the Irish Life Centre in Dublin.

                    As as you say all you’re new to Irish records, I highly recommend Claire Santry’s Irish Genealogy Toolkit. She has a good overview of Griffiths Primary Valuation here:
                    https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit....valuation.html

                    and an overview of the Revision books here:
                    https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit....ion-books.html

                    Christine
                    Researching:
                    HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Originally posted by Nora View Post

                      You are a machine.
                      Hmm 🤔
                      Researching:
                      HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                      Comment


                        #31
                        For what it’s worth - I found the probate for the Heffernan priest (post 22) - his first name was indeed Pierse.

                        http://www.willcalendars.nationalarc...4900_00199.pdf

                        Christine
                        Researching:
                        HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                        Comment


                          #32
                          Originally posted by Karamazov View Post

                          Hmm 🤔
                          It's a good thing! I'm just very impressed with how quick you are at finding stuff. Without your help, I'd have been very stuck so thank you

                          Comment


                            #33
                            Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
                            I had a look at the Griffiths Valuation for Heffernans in Vicarstown. County Waterford was surveyed 1848-1851. The only Heffernan in Vicarstown is a Margaret Heffernan.
                            http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/...width=&height=

                            I would hazard a guess that she could be Michael Heffernan’s widowed mother. To confirm this, you would need access to the Griffiths Revision books to track who the tenancy passed to. Unfortunately, at the moment, you can only access these in person at the Irish Life Centre in Dublin.

                            As as you say you’re new to Irish records, I highly recommend Claire Santry’s Irish Genealogy Toolkit. She has a good overview of Griffiths Primary Valuation here:
                            https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit....valuation.html

                            and an overview of the Revision books here:
                            https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit....ion-books.html

                            Christine
                            Further to this - I think this is probably the GV Margaret Heffernan’s death:
                            https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....86/7258164.pdf
                            The informant is a Maggie Heffernan, also of Vicarstown, but relationship not recorded - daughter? daughter-in-law? Pity it’s not Michael!

                            Not sure what to suggest next, unless you want to trawl through all the Heffernan BMDs registered in Dungarvan and Lismore to see which happened in Vicarstown, and work out various family relationships...

                            Christine
                            Researching:
                            HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                            Comment


                              #34
                              I did think of something else - the Irish Petty Sessions records - and got a few results for John and William Heffernan for drunkenness and salmon poaching!
                              https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/co...CsKE47%2CsKE54

                              Christine
                              Researching:
                              HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                              Comment


                                #35
                                Working theory re parents of Michael who married Ann Bagge: looking at the field books for Modelligo entries for Margaret and John Heffernan, my thoughts are that these two could well be his mother and father.
                                I think they refer to the same lease of just 4 roods, which was initially held by John. Presumably he dies between Oct 1848 and Sept 1850 when Margaret takes over the lease.
                                http://census.nationalarchives.ie/se...&search=Search
                                For more info on the field books, click on the Valuation office books tab at the top of this page:
                                https://genealogy.nationalarchives.ie

                                Thoughts, anyone?

                                Christine


                                Researching:
                                HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                                Comment


                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
                                  I did think of something else - the Irish Petty Sessions records - and got a few results for John and William Heffernan for drunkenness and salmon poaching!
                                  https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/co...CsKE47%2CsKE54

                                  Christine
                                  There's so many petty crime records for Heffernan's. I did wonder if maybe some were relations because my GG grandad William liked to drink and steal haha. I think the Ellen on the 1901 and 1911 census is Johns widow. Found the birth records for all the children except Kate but there is a Mary born the same year, the parents are Ellen Corbett and John Hefferman. I think I found Ellen's death cert and informant is Michael Heffernan.

                                  Comment


                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
                                    Working theory re parents of Michael who married Ann Bagge: looking at the field books for Modelligo entries for Margaret and John Heffernan, my thoughts are that these two could well be his mother and father.
                                    I think they refer to the same lease of just 4 roods, which was initially held by John. Presumably he dies between Oct 1848 and Sept 1850 when Margaret takes over the lease.
                                    http://census.nationalarchives.ie/se...&search=Search
                                    For more info on the field books, click on the Valuation office books tab at the top of this page:
                                    https://genealogy.nationalarchives.ie

                                    Thoughts, anyone?

                                    Christine

                                    This is amazing. Thank you so much Last week I didn't even know Williams birth year for sure and now I more than likely have all his family!

                                    Comment


                                      #38
                                      Originally posted by Nora View Post

                                      There's so many petty crime records for Heffernan's. I did wonder if maybe some were relations because my GG grandad William liked to drink and steal haha. I think the Ellen on the 1901 and 1911 census is Johns widow. Found the birth records for all the children except Kate but there is a Mary born the same year, the parents are Ellen Corbett and John Hefferman. I think I found Ellen's death cert and informant is Michael Heffernan.
                                      You can narrow them down by typing in the townland in the keyword section of the search. That’s fine with Vicarstown, but is more problematic when there are variant spellings of the place. I had to do all sorts of wildcarding for my Donegal ancestors - not just the townland but all the variant surname spellings!

                                      Christine
                                      Researching:
                                      HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                                      Comment


                                        #39
                                        I found a Michael Heffernan appearing a few times in the Petty Sessions on ancestry charged with theft. one of his offences was stealing a spade! No idea if all the Michael Hefferenans are the same man nor if he is the same one you are researching (William's father).

                                        Comment


                                          #40
                                          Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
                                          I found a Michael Heffernan appearing a few times in the Petty Sessions on ancestry charged with theft. one of his offences was stealing a spade! No idea if all the Michael Hefferenans are the same man nor if he is the same one you are researching (William's father).
                                          I haven’t looked beyond Vicarstown as keyword, but what I’ve gathered from searches so far: Heffernan marriages at Modelligo were registered in Lismore, births and deaths in Vicarstown were registered in Dungarvan, and they were up before the beak at Cappoquin.

                                          Christine
                                          Researching:
                                          HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                                          Comment

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