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Can anyone decipher this name?

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  • Nora
    replied
    My tree mainly consists of welsh records on my grandmothers side. The Irish stuff is only on my GG Grandads side so gonna work on filling them out, it's just hard though because I've never searched Irish things before now. Most of the crime records I've found with people who could be Michael seem to include other Heffernan's. Mainly mass brawls and being too drunk with the odd bit of stealing. There's just so many but I'll start to try and filter it to Waterford or Vicarstown. Not knowing the geography of Ireland and where the cases would go court doesn't help but yep, I agree they are fun to read. I found one Heffernan that was caught stealing two turkeys haha.

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  • Karamazov
    replied
    Originally posted by Nora View Post
    Yeh, to be honest I'm not sure where to start with the crime records, there's so many and even in the right area I still don't know lol. There was just too many Heffernan's being criminals! I think I found another child for Michael Heffernan and Anne Bagge but it's transcribed as Maria and it's hard to read on the page but I'm pretty sure it says Anne.
    This is the record:
    https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource
    I assume Patritium is Patrick?
    I found a dog license record too for one of the daughters in the right area. What was the point of such a record? It doesn't really give much information other than location.
    Yes, it’s Patrick and I agree it’s Ann as mother.
    Re the dog licence - yes, they don’t tell you a great deal, but in the days before irishgenealogy.ie came online, I was reduced to trawling through them to deduce when someone might have died or emigrated when they no longer got a licence. I’ve heard tell of records where the dog’s name was recorded, which is a nice touch, but have never come across one myself.
    Re the petty sessions records - if you’ve now got a reasonable tree together, and have tracked descendants from BMDs and 1901 and 1911 census, make a note of the townland where they lived and see if that narrows things down. Whatever, they can be quite entertaining to read (more serious crimes would have gone to the quarter sessions/assizes.)
    Most of mine are disputes/feuds with family and neighbours, but a lot of the time they didn’t even bother turning up to the court- just no app recorded in the verdict section.

    Christine

    Leave a comment:


  • Nora
    replied
    Yeh, to be honest I'm not sure where to start with the crime records, there's so many and even in the right area I still don't know lol. There was just too many Heffernan's being criminals! I think I found another child for Michael Heffernan and Anne Bagge but it's transcribed as Maria and it's hard to read on the page but I'm pretty sure it says Anne.
    This is the record:
    https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource
    I assume Patritium is Patrick?
    I found a dog license record too for one of the daughters in the right area. What was the point of such a record? It doesn't really give much information other than location.

    Leave a comment:


  • GallowayLass
    replied
    Originally posted by Karamazov View Post

    I haven’t looked beyond Vicarstown as keyword, but what I’ve gathered from searches so far: Heffernan marriages at Modelligo were registered in Lismore, births and deaths in Vicarstown were registered in Dungarvan, and they were up before the beak at Cappoquin.

    Christine
    That’s also what I found but as I haven’t a clue where some of the placenames are that were involved in the offences, I didn’t bother posting the finds for Michael and the spade etc. in case it started a wild goose chase LOL

    Leave a comment:


  • Karamazov
    replied
    Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
    I found a Michael Heffernan appearing a few times in the Petty Sessions on ancestry charged with theft. one of his offences was stealing a spade! No idea if all the Michael Hefferenans are the same man nor if he is the same one you are researching (William's father).
    I haven’t looked beyond Vicarstown as keyword, but what I’ve gathered from searches so far: Heffernan marriages at Modelligo were registered in Lismore, births and deaths in Vicarstown were registered in Dungarvan, and they were up before the beak at Cappoquin.

    Christine

    Leave a comment:


  • GallowayLass
    replied
    I found a Michael Heffernan appearing a few times in the Petty Sessions on ancestry charged with theft. one of his offences was stealing a spade! No idea if all the Michael Hefferenans are the same man nor if he is the same one you are researching (William's father).

    Leave a comment:


  • Karamazov
    replied
    Originally posted by Nora View Post

    There's so many petty crime records for Heffernan's. I did wonder if maybe some were relations because my GG grandad William liked to drink and steal haha. I think the Ellen on the 1901 and 1911 census is Johns widow. Found the birth records for all the children except Kate but there is a Mary born the same year, the parents are Ellen Corbett and John Hefferman. I think I found Ellen's death cert and informant is Michael Heffernan.
    You can narrow them down by typing in the townland in the keyword section of the search. That’s fine with Vicarstown, but is more problematic when there are variant spellings of the place. I had to do all sorts of wildcarding for my Donegal ancestors - not just the townland but all the variant surname spellings!

    Christine

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  • Nora
    replied
    Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
    Working theory re parents of Michael who married Ann Bagge: looking at the field books for Modelligo entries for Margaret and John Heffernan, my thoughts are that these two could well be his mother and father.
    I think they refer to the same lease of just 4 roods, which was initially held by John. Presumably he dies between Oct 1848 and Sept 1850 when Margaret takes over the lease.
    http://census.nationalarchives.ie/se...&search=Search
    For more info on the field books, click on the Valuation office books tab at the top of this page:
    https://genealogy.nationalarchives.ie

    Thoughts, anyone?

    Christine

    This is amazing. Thank you so much Last week I didn't even know Williams birth year for sure and now I more than likely have all his family!

    Leave a comment:


  • Nora
    replied
    Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
    I did think of something else - the Irish Petty Sessions records - and got a few results for John and William Heffernan for drunkenness and salmon poaching!
    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/co...CsKE47%2CsKE54

    Christine
    There's so many petty crime records for Heffernan's. I did wonder if maybe some were relations because my GG grandad William liked to drink and steal haha. I think the Ellen on the 1901 and 1911 census is Johns widow. Found the birth records for all the children except Kate but there is a Mary born the same year, the parents are Ellen Corbett and John Hefferman. I think I found Ellen's death cert and informant is Michael Heffernan.

    Leave a comment:


  • Karamazov
    replied
    Working theory re parents of Michael who married Ann Bagge: looking at the field books for Modelligo entries for Margaret and John Heffernan, my thoughts are that these two could well be his mother and father.
    I think they refer to the same lease of just 4 roods, which was initially held by John. Presumably he dies between Oct 1848 and Sept 1850 when Margaret takes over the lease.
    http://census.nationalarchives.ie/se...&search=Search
    For more info on the field books, click on the Valuation office books tab at the top of this page:
    https://genealogy.nationalarchives.ie

    Thoughts, anyone?

    Christine


    Leave a comment:


  • Karamazov
    replied
    I did think of something else - the Irish Petty Sessions records - and got a few results for John and William Heffernan for drunkenness and salmon poaching!
    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/co...CsKE47%2CsKE54

    Christine

    Leave a comment:


  • Karamazov
    replied
    Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
    I had a look at the Griffiths Valuation for Heffernans in Vicarstown. County Waterford was surveyed 1848-1851. The only Heffernan in Vicarstown is a Margaret Heffernan.
    http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/...width=&height=

    I would hazard a guess that she could be Michael Heffernan’s widowed mother. To confirm this, you would need access to the Griffiths Revision books to track who the tenancy passed to. Unfortunately, at the moment, you can only access these in person at the Irish Life Centre in Dublin.

    As as you say you’re new to Irish records, I highly recommend Claire Santry’s Irish Genealogy Toolkit. She has a good overview of Griffiths Primary Valuation here:
    https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit....valuation.html

    and an overview of the Revision books here:
    https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit....ion-books.html

    Christine
    Further to this - I think this is probably the GV Margaret Heffernan’s death:
    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....86/7258164.pdf
    The informant is a Maggie Heffernan, also of Vicarstown, but relationship not recorded - daughter? daughter-in-law? Pity it’s not Michael!

    Not sure what to suggest next, unless you want to trawl through all the Heffernan BMDs registered in Dungarvan and Lismore to see which happened in Vicarstown, and work out various family relationships...

    Christine

    Leave a comment:


  • Nora
    replied
    Originally posted by Karamazov View Post

    Hmm 🤔
    It's a good thing! I'm just very impressed with how quick you are at finding stuff. Without your help, I'd have been very stuck so thank you

    Leave a comment:


  • Karamazov
    replied
    For what it’s worth - I found the probate for the Heffernan priest (post 22) - his first name was indeed Pierse.

    http://www.willcalendars.nationalarc...4900_00199.pdf

    Christine

    Leave a comment:


  • Karamazov
    replied
    Originally posted by Nora View Post

    You are a machine.
    Hmm 🤔

    Leave a comment:


  • Karamazov
    replied
    I had a look at the Griffiths Valuation for Heffernans in Vicarstown. County Waterford was surveyed 1848-1851. The only Heffernan in Vicarstown is a Margaret Heffernan.
    http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/...width=&height=

    I would hazard a guess that she could be Michael Heffernan’s widowed mother. To confirm this, you would need access to the Griffiths Revision books to track who the tenancy passed to. Unfortunately, at the moment, you can only access these in person at the Irish Life Centre in Dublin.

    As as you say all you’re new to Irish records, I highly recommend Claire Santry’s Irish Genealogy Toolkit. She has a good overview of Griffiths Primary Valuation here:
    https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit....valuation.html

    and an overview of the Revision books here:
    https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit....ion-books.html

    Christine

    Leave a comment:


  • Nora
    replied
    Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
    Found the first marriage in Modelligo in 1884 to Catherine Hackett. His age is given as 34 which would give birth around 1850, but as noted upthread, I couldn’t find a baptism for him so I suspect he was probably older. In my experience, Irish ages can vary wildly from record to record! The witness Margaret Heffernan
    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....20/5989730.pdf

    Poor Catherine didn’t last long, dying in 1886
    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....57/4791941.pdf

    She is recorded as wife of an army pensioner.

    Christine
    You are a machine. Thank you so much for all of this. There is no way I would have ever found this, I've never delved in to Irish records before now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Karamazov
    replied
    Found the first marriage in Modelligo in 1884 to Catherine Hackett. His age is given as 34 which would give birth around 1850, but as noted upthread, I couldn’t find a baptism for him so I suspect he was probably older. In my experience, Irish ages can vary wildly from record to record! The witness Margaret Heffernan
    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....20/5989730.pdf

    Poor Catherine didn’t last long, dying in 1886
    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....57/4791941.pdf

    She is recorded as wife of an army pensioner.

    Christine

    Leave a comment:


  • Nora
    replied
    Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
    That makes sense. I couldn’t find a Bag or variant in Vicarstown on 1901 or 1911 censuses but there are Heffernan and variants. Have added in House number 1 in 1901 because in 1911 part of what is likely this family are now in Vicarstown South with a Heffernan servant. Looks like father has died and the brothers have moved house. You can see the “all information” in the actual images at http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

    Residents of a house 1 in Vicarstown North (Modelligo, Waterford)

    Show all information
    Kiely Patrick 60 Male Head of Family Catholic
    Kiely Michael 30 Male Son Catholic
    Kiely Patrick 28 Male Son Catholic
    Kiely John 24 Male Son Catholic
    Walsh Margret 20 Female Servant Catholic
    Walsh Noragh 10 Female Servant Catholic
    Morrisey Thomas 60 Male Servant Catholic
    1901 Residents of a house 2 in Vicarstown North (Modelligo, Waterford)

    Show all information
    Cullinane Michael 38 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic
    Cullinane Mary 60 Female Wife Roman Catholic
    Mahony Maggie 18 Female Relative Roman Catholic
    1901 Residents of a house 3 in Vicarstown North (Modelligo, Waterford)

    Show all information
    Heffernan Ellen 50 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic
    Heffernan Kate 12 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
    Heffernan Hanora 11 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
    Heffernan Ellen 9 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
    Heffernan Michael 8 Male Son Roman Catholic
    1911 Residents of a house 1 in Vicarstown, North (Modelligo, Waterford)

    Show all information
    Kiely John 32 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic
    Kiely Michael 41 Male Brother Roman Catholic
    Kiely Patrick 38 Male Brother Roman Catholic
    Hoffernan Michael 18 Male Servant Roman Catholic
    1911 Residents of a house 2 in Vicarstown, North (Modelligo, Waterford)

    Show all information
    Heffernane Ellen 60 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic
    Heffernane Mary 21 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
    Heffernane Ellen 20 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
    1911 Residents of a house 1 in Vicarstown, South (Modelligo, Waterford)

    Show all information
    Hickey Patrick 51 Male Head of Family Catholic
    Hickey Margaret 44 Female Wife Catholic
    Hickey James 18 Male Son Catholic
    Hickey John 17 Male Son Catholic
    Hickey Bridget 16 Female Daughter Catholic
    Hickey Richard 14 Male Son Catholic
    Hickey Thomas 12 Male Son Catholic
    Hickey Catherine 11 Female Daughter Catholic
    Hickey Margaret 9 Female Daughter Catholic
    Hickey Maurice 7 Male Son Catholic
    Hickey Mary 2 Female Daughter Catholic
    Cahill Patrick 65 Female Servant Catholic
    Heffernane Norah 22 Male Servant Catholic
    Could this be John's widow Ellen? It makes sense with her being widowed or am I clutching at straws.

    Leave a comment:


  • Karamazov
    replied
    Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
    I think this is probably the death of informant son/stepson John Heffernan - informant is his wife, another Ellen.
    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....83/4701565.pdf

    The John Heffernan who marries an Ellen Keating in 1874 is not him - different father.
    (I’ve only been looking at Heffernan info registered in Dungarvan as that is the nearest registration town for Vicarstown/Modelligo parish.)

    If the age if 50 is correct, he was born circa 1843, which would account for why I couldn’t find a baptism for him - so can’t find first wife’s name via that route, unfortunately.
    Wonder where he was getting a pension from? Could he have been a soldier too?
    Christine
    I think this is John Heffernan marrying Ellen Corbett in 1887 in Modelligo Catholic Church. Reg district is Lismore.
    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....97/5937493.pdf

    Occupation is caretaker. He’s a widower, so will have a look for first wife!

    Christine

    Leave a comment:

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