Marriage look up please

[Val wish Id never started]

Sarah Keen and Joseph Potts about 1899 not sure where but maybe Shoreditch or Poplar
First child seems to be Joseph Potts 1899 Shoreditch
Thanks

[Sylvia C]

Could Sarah have been married before, so that Keen is her maiden name but she married under another surname??

[GallowayLass]

I can’t find a Potts or a Keen child to fit 1899 Shoreditch on the GRO website. There are no Potts at all and only 3 Keen but none has first or middle name of Joseph. Where did you find your reference?

[GallowayLass]

I have searched 1897 - 1911 and found a large Potts family born in Shoreditch, 1 in Poplar and a curve ball in Sheffield. All have mms Keen but still no Joseph. That’s a lot of kids to have and get away with declaring a marriage if none existed. Perfectly possible though that the parents were consistent fibbers LOL I have one of those in my mother’s family. A brick wall for many years was her first born child, an illegitimate boy. Turns out he was the only legitimate one born to a marriage that nobody knew about. Her other three were the illegitimate ones and the claimed marriage never existed.

[Val wish Id never started]

Thanks for looking ,here they are in 1911 , I dont think Sarah had been married before ,but will have another look.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2352/rg14_01362_0441_03/240230?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/6737403/person/6112377327/facts/citation/1122185724713/edit/record

and 1901
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7814/LNDRG13_341_342-0725?pid=2795970&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D7814%26h%3D2795970%26ti d%3D6737403%26pid%3D412133484433%26hid%3D100481509 3044%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3Dqnz157%26_phstart% 3Ddefault%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26currentPageIsStart%3 D&treeid=6737403&personid=412133484433&hintid=1004815093044&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qnz157&_phstart=default&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.15910261.212315717.1569535463-1520772758.1566829165

[cbcarolyn]

The census say born in Hackney Wick and Victoria Park, which is just down the road to Shoreditch, still can't find anything.

There is a marriage of a Sarah Ann Kyne in 1896 (was thinking she would only be 16, but could have remarried under her new name, but used her maiden name at other times.)

I think a red herring:
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8913&h=17076465&tid=161314848&pid=222133377407&usePUB=true&_phsrc=SZd22232&_phstart=successSource

Have you got her parents?

[Elaine]

This removal order gives a lot of info

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=2651&h=169044&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=2352

It refers to Sarah Potts, properly Keen and Joseph son is George, it's the same birth date as his school admissions

Potts is Joseph Henry


***EDIT just changed the link to the right one apologies

[Elaine]

It lists the 4 children Sarah Maud Albert Arthur as illegitimate of Sarah and listing the 5 children, notes he is the father of them all.

There's a note of a sister in the margin

Jane Branchford
28 Prince Edward Road Hackney

[Elaine]

Margin note

[Val wish Id never started]

oh thanks or all that info , but sadly if she had a sister Brandford then she isn't my Sarah, unless thats her married name ?? her sister Jane married a Branchflower wonder if thats a mistake?

yes have her parents Samuel Edward Keen and Jane nee Nixon, another marriage I cannot find

[Val wish Id never started]

ooh ooh just noticed her sister Jane Branchflower is at that address thanks all

[Elaine]

Not sure if she could be Joseph's sister as she is in the margin that lists his children.

Branchford is not helping but the addresses listed, 1911 Mill Row is there

I think it says witness but not sure of what is written before Jane.

Have you got access Val? can post the addresses if you want

[Elaine]

Brilliant:)

[GallowayLass]

Have been looking on GRO for KEEN girls born with mms NIXON and can’t find a Jane.

[Val wish Id never started]

Thanks very much am thrilled been looking for her for a long time, wonder if she did marry him , doesn't look like it.
Maud and Albert were twins , Sarah had twin Brothers, lost one of those two so may be asking for more help.:).

[Val wish Id never started]

Galloway this is Sarahs Birth

Keen, Sarah Mother Nixon
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 656

[GallowayLass]

I think is first child George from GRO as listed in the image in post#7

KEEN, GEORGE THOMAS POTTS -
GRO Reference: 1900 M Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 586

[GallowayLass]

Is this the missing Joseph? Could Sarah have been “sent away” for the birth?

KEAN, JOSEPH -
GRO Reference: 1898 J Quarter in UXBRIDGE Volume 03A Page 48

[Val wish Id never started]

Thanks Galloway dont think thats him as ,his School records show him as Joseph Henry Potts and born 28 Dec 1899 Hackney Wick

[GallowayLass]

Still not coming up with a POTTS BRANCH* marriage with Jane having either surname. Grr!!

[Elaine]

When I looked at the census list for Joseph Henry Potts there are 3 together, 1901 and 1911 as you have

1891 has this chap from Durham in St Luke London

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1891&indiv=try&h=9298325

George Potts 42
Elizabeth Potts 34
Joseph H Potts 13
Ada Potts 5
Hannah Potts 3
Thomas Potts 4/12

[Val wish Id never started]

and thanks for the details for George , wouldn't have found that probably

[Val wish Id never started]

Still not coming up with a POTTS BRANCH* marriage with Jane having either surname. Grr!!

ooh Galloway its Sarah Keen marrying a Potts I am looking for , sorry if I misled you.
Jane Nixon was her Mother and I never have found a marriage for either

[GallowayLass]

Have tried ancestry version of GRO for any Joseph Henry or Henry Joseph 1899 London but still no joy. Thought had found a mistranscription as KEAL but a check of actual GRO gives different mms.

[Elaine]

The way the removal order is worded seemed to indicate George is not Sarah's son I thought.

[GallowayLass]

ooh Galloway its Sarah Keen marrying a Potts I am looking for , sorry if I misled you.
Jane Nixon was her Mother and I never have found a marriage for either

Yep, I got that and had no joy so was trying to work out who the witness Jane Branchford was. Was she Sarah’s sister or sister in law. Going by not finding a Jane KEEN or similar with mms NIXON, I tried to see if she was Jane POTTS marrying a BRANCHFORD or Jane BRANCHFORD marrying a POTTS. No joy either way.

[GallowayLass]

Did you miss my post #17 ?

[Elaine]

I was thinking if he is not Sarah's son, would he have Keen in the surname?

[Val wish Id never started]

I seem to have found Joseph Potts senior on 2 1901 census records?? going to have a little rest getting boggleyed

[Val wish Id never started]

Yes thanks I did thank you for the record of George Thomas Potts Keen, on post 22 probably cross posted

Jane Branchflower is Sarah's Sister Jane Keen

[GallowayLass]

The image shows BRANCHFORD not BRANCHFLOWER. No wonder I came up with zilch. Time to rest the eyes methinks LOL

[cbcarolyn]

here is a marriage - Jane Keen to William Edward Blanchflower

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1623/31280_197575-00385?pid=1353103619&

I think you have this though
5 Aug 1878

I think wrong also!

I am confused with flowers and fords too

[cbcarolyn]

Not really helping find the marriage, and think I am off on a tangent here!

Census for 1861 for Samuel Keen with Jane Nixon and daughter Jane Nixon lodging, is it even right for you?

[cbcarolyn]

Here is another Marriage

Alice Keen - daughter of Samuel, witness William Blanchflower

off to bed now...

[Val wish Id never started]

yes that 1861 census is my Jane Nixon, I do have all the census records for her, its just the marriage to a Samuel Edward Keen I've not found.
I also have all the info I need on Sarah's siblings, its just her marriage to a Joseph Potts I am looking for.

Thanks everybody

[GallowayLass]

Nope. Have now trawled through everything I can think of on FMP and nothing for Sarah Keen or variant to Joseph Potts or variant. I think it’s highly likely they never actually married. Off the bed now before I end up comatose on the sofa LOL

[teasie]

I think is first child George from GRO as listed in the image in post#7

KEEN, GEORGE THOMAS POTTS -
GRO Reference: 1900 M Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 586

There is a baptism at St Mark, Bow:
10 Jan 1900 (born 26 Dec 1899) George Thomas s/o Sarah Keen, 736 Old Ford Road

ADDED: Reading the Removal Order, all of Sarah's children were illegitimate, as has been mentioned earlier, so Val, you wont find a marriage.

[Val wish Id never started]

Thanks very much everybody for solving a long puzzle.
I hadn't realised all her children were illegitimate , thought it was just the first couple ,so thanks for that Teasie.
Wonder if Joseph helped her then, why have all those children with no support.

[teasie]

Joseph was the father, they just weren't married.

[Val wish Id never started]

I thought I had found him with a wife?? will look into it more thanks again.

[cbcarolyn]

I couldn't find a marriage for her father Samuel Edward Keen to Jane Nixon (or is it Dixon). The census for 1861 looks like Jane first born is not Samuel's, and marriage would be after that date.

[teasie]

I thought I had found him with a wife?? will look into it more thanks again.

Joseph? No, he is with Sarah and Joseph/George in 1901 at 45 Dace Road, St Mary Stratford / Bow

In 1911 they are at 79 Mill Row, Hoxton, which is one of the addresses given on the Removal Order.

They say they are married, but they arent. Not unusual.

[teasie]

I'm also doubting whether Joseph Henry Potts / Joseph Potts was his true name. The census say he was born West Hartlepool, but I can only see one Joseph Potts born there around the right time, and on all census from 1881-1911 he is at the same address - 14 Moreland Street, Stranton (West Hartlepool)

[Val wish Id never started]

yes I noticed that too, so pleased with all the info everybody has found for me, giving me lots to work on:)

[cbcarolyn]

Joseph the son was married to Rose Matthews
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1623/31280_199233-00295/4586589?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/161314848/person/222133377450/facts/citation/742186343139/edit/record

Says Joseph the father was a soldier. I think he has been an engineer also

[cbcarolyn]

https://www.familytreeforum.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by GallowayLass https://www.familytreeforum.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.familytreeforum.com/showthread.php?p=2660787#post2660787)
I think is first child George from GRO as listed in the image in post#7

KEEN, GEORGE THOMAS POTTS -
GRO Reference: 1900 M Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 586

There is a baptism at St Mark, Bow:
10 Jan 1900 (born 26 Dec 1899) George Thomas s/o Sarah Keen, 736 Old Ford Road

ADDED: Reading the Removal Order, all of Sarah's children were illegitimate, as has been mentioned earlier, so Val, you wont find a marriage.

odd he morphed into Joseph Henry, almost as if they wanted him to appear as the first born of father Joseph Henry? and like others are saying wasn't actually Joseph Henry's child

[cbcarolyn]

I also note that father is Joseph Henry Potts as he is on the reg of electors living at Wickham Street
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1795/40020_214279-01468?pid=122036808&treeid=161314848&personid=222133377450&usePUB=true&_phsrc=SZd22433&_phstart=successSource

[teasie]

The fact that Potts is included as one of the forenames strongly suggests that 'Joseph Potts' was the father - and he is listed as such on the Removal Order - but since Joseph/Joseph Henry Potts Sr doesn't seem to exist before 1901 (other than the other/actual one who remained at the same address in Hartlepool), then it seems there are at least four mysteries:

1) Why was George Thomas Potts Keen's name changed to Joseph Henry?
2) What was Joseph Henry Potts Sr's real name & PoB
3) Why did he change it?
4) Why did he & Sarah not marry?

[cbcarolyn]

I also note that Joseph Jnr joined West Yorkshire regiment as a 'boy'

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1219/30973_184100-00152?pid=1578481&treeid=161314848&personid=222133377450&usePUB=true&_phsrc=SZd22456&_phstart=successSource

[teasie]

The Removal Order says they were admitted to Hackney Workhouse 15 Jan 1913, and although its very blurry and difficult to make out, the entry is below. It spans both pages and shows that the children were sent to the Cottage Homes, with the exception of Arthur, who was sent to the Infirmary. Sarah's name is hard to make out but I think she's recorded as Keen, a Box Maker born c1879'

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60391/31363_A106271-00000?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return#?imageId=31363_A106271-00078

As it's just Sarah & the children, and it's before WW1, my suspicion is that Joseph Sr has abandoned the family, and that Joseph Jr put his father's occupation as 'soldier' on his marriage record (during WW1) as an easy way to explain his absence.

Sarah Elizabeth married a few weeks later and gave his occupation as Carman, which tallies with the 1911 census.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1623/31280_199233-00296?pid=6466892&treeid=&personid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=suT26217&_phstart=successSource

[cbcarolyn]

check that you have the basic viewer off on Ancestry, mine was switched on as I think it 'asked' me to do it last week when they were having trouble. it is not as blurry, as I had the same trouble last night reading it.

[teasie]

Sarah died in Shoreditch in 1922 and is recorded on FreeBMD as both Potts and Keen. The GRO index only has her as Keen.

KEEN, SARAH aged 43 GRO Reference: 1922 J Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 114

[teasie]

check that you have the basic viewer off on Ancestry, mine was switched on as I think it 'asked' me to do it last week when they were having trouble. it is not as blurry, as I had the same trouble last night reading it.

Oh, that's much better! It normally tells me to switch on/off within the image when there's a problem but it obviously hasn't this time. I didnt even know there was a separate place to do it - something to remember for the future. Thank you!

[cbcarolyn]

they are in 44 Essex street in 1921

but confused at there is Sarah, Joseph and Jospeh Henry
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1795/40020_213414-00173?pid=138641850&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D1795%26h%3D138641850%26 tid%3D161314848%26pid%3D222133377449%26usePUB%3Dtr ue%26_phsrc%3DfVi16039%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=161314848&personid=222133377449&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi16039&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.74424978.1606143385.1569318737-1485122363.1543608453&_gac=1.57071704.1569527566.Cj0KCQjww7HsBRDkARIsAAR sIT6gcWF6jdpugLTy_tywUi3g5uxKsNpTIukqJgOd-sdts3u-NQDSD5QaAidAEALw_wcB

[cbcarolyn]

what about this one Lanchester, a little way from Hartlepool

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8912/ONS_B18782AZ-0545?pid=28724147&treeid=161314848&personid=222133377449&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi16071&_phstart=successSource

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/6598/LNDRG12_230_231-0634/9298325?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/161314848/person/222133377449/facts/citation/742186653367/edit/record

[teasie]

Looks like Sarah discharged herself & the children 3 Mar 1913:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1557/31537_214897-00000?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return#?imageId=31363_A106500-00072

[cbcarolyn]

this is Ada - the sister on the census (I think)
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2352/rg14_29647_0239_03/35025469?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/102014164/person/300013401373/facts/citation/902158186178/edit/record

Now living in Hartelpool!

NameAda Potts
Marriage Date24 Dec 1906
Marriage Place Holy Trinity, Hartlepool, Durham, England
SpouseJohn Joseph Walker
FHL Film Number1519301
Reference IDcn 477 p 44
Ada Potts
Name John Joseph Walker

[Val wish Id never started]

blimey you have been busy thanks so much, I just came back to say in 1911 says 8 children born 3 died, so been trying to find those 3.

Got 2
Samuel Edward Potts 1907-1907
William Potts 1909-1909

I was wondering about Joseph Potts and George Thomas Potts Keen
George have Birth and Bap 28.12.1899
Joseph no Birth or Bap but on school records born 28.12.1899
So are we saying they are one and the same ????
and on School records

[Elaine]

That's the chap I mentioned #21

[Val wish Id never started]

isnt that peculiar to have her death registered twice? and thanks for all the other info you found

[cbcarolyn]

That's the chap I mentioned #21 oops sorry I missed that :( It certainly is looking like the right one. Family members are back in Hartlepool

[teasie]

what about this one Lanchester, a little way from Hartlepool

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8912/ONS_B18782AZ-0545?pid=28724147&treeid=161314848&personid=222133377449&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi16071&_phstart=successSource

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/6598/LNDRG12_230_231-0634/9298325?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/161314848/person/222133377449/facts/citation/742186653367/edit/record

Good spot - similar occupation too :D. I'm from around that area and we'd never consider Lanchester (mining district) to be close to Hartlepool (coastal), so where on earth he got that from, heaven knows! Mother's maiden name seems to be TOOTELL/TOOTLE, but I can't immediately see any children born in or around Hartlepool.

EDIT: Just noticed your comment 'Family members are back in Hartlepool' so that explains it.

I wish this site would warn you when someone has posted since you started typing (Im terrible for starting and then taking an age while I look for something else!)

[Val wish Id never started]

yes you did Elaine thanks, lI was just wondering if Joseph is really him? looks like its already been mentioned on here,
Am very grateful for all you lovely people have found, trying to take it all in.

[teasie]

isnt that peculiar to have her death registered twice? and thanks for all the other info you found

Its only been registered once but her death certificate will say something like Sarah Keen otherwise known as Potts. I've come across it a few times.

[cbcarolyn]

Good spot - similar occupation too :D. I'm from around that area and we'd never consider Lanchester (mining district) to be close to Hartlepool (coastal), so where on earth he got that from, heaven knows! Mother's maiden name seems to be TOOTELL/TOOTLE, but I can't immediately see any children born in or around Hartlepool.

EDIT: Just noticed your comment 'Family members are back in Hartlepool' so that explains it.

I wish this site would warn you when someone has posted since you started typing (Im terrible for starting and then taking an age while I look for something else!)

It looks like they were in the area at some time, so maybe they weren't in Lanchester long and forgot where he was born ?

[Elaine]

I popped in Toot* MMN

Ada Wandsworth 1885
Ellen 1879 Lanchester
Hannah 1887 Fulham
Joseph Henry 1878 Lanchester
Richard 1895 hackney
Robert 1880 Lanchester
Thomas 1890 Wandsworth

[Elaine]

marriage

Northumberland And Durham Marriages
First name(s) George
Last name Potts
Marriage date 30 Dec 1877
Place Tudhoe
Description Holy Innocents
Spouse first name(s) Elisabeth
Spouse last name Tootell

[cbcarolyn]

Do you think that is 2 families? the births of children?

the 1911 census - I think
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2352/rg14_29646_0097_03?pid=35027939&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D2352%26h%3D35027939%26s src%3Dpt%26tid%3D111165927%26pid%3D130085279014%26 usePUB%3Dtrue&ssrc=pt&treeid=111165927&personid=130085279014&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.250981126.1606143385.1569318737-1485122363.1543608453&_gac=1.263003646.1569527566.Cj0KCQjww7HsBRDkARIsAA RsIT6gcWF6jdpugLTy_tywUi3g5uxKsNpTIukqJgOd-sdts3u-NQDSD5QaAidAEALw_wcB

These are the children

Name Age
George Potts 67
Elizabeth Potts 51
George Potts 17
Richard Potts 16
Sarah Jane Potts 13
Nicholas Robert Potts 10

[cbcarolyn]

blimey you have been busy thanks so much, I just came back to say in 1911 says 8 children born 3 died, so been trying to find those 3.

Got 2
Samuel Edward Potts 1907-1907
William Potts 1909-1909

I was wondering about Joseph Potts and George Thomas Potts Keen
George have Birth and Bap 28.12.1899
Joseph no Birth or Bap but on school records born 28.12.1899
So are we saying they are one and the same ????
and on School records

There is an Esther
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1558/31280_198130-00626?pid=19101739&treeid=161314848&personid=222133377454&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi16142&_phstart=successSource

[GallowayLass]

they are in 44 Essex street in 1921

but confused at there is Sarah, Joseph and Jospeh Henry
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1795/40020_213414-00173?pid=138641850&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D1795%26h%3D138641850%26 tid%3D161314848%26pid%3D222133377449%26usePUB%3Dtr ue%26_phsrc%3DfVi16039%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=161314848&personid=222133377449&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi16039&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.74424978.1606143385.1569318737-1485122363.1543608453&_gac=1.57071704.1569527566.Cj0KCQjww7HsBRDkARIsAAR sIT6gcWF6jdpugLTy_tywUi3g5uxKsNpTIukqJgOd-sdts3u-NQDSD5QaAidAEALw_wcB

1921??? What source did that come from?

[Elaine]

Brother in law Thomas Toot* is with them 1911 and looking at the children 1901, they do tally.

[cbcarolyn]

1921??? What source did that come from?

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 for Joseph Henry PottsShoreditch and Stepney Shoreditch and Stepney 1921

A confusing entry, as Jospeh married? maybe it is not them

[cbcarolyn]

Brother in law Thomas Toot* is with them 1911 and looking at the children 1901, they do tally.
It all looks like it fits, sorry didn't spot your post last night.

There are a number of family members that are all quite traceable, so Val should be able to fill up her tree :)

[cbcarolyn]

Quote Originally Posted by GallowayLass View Post
1921??? What source did that come from?


London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 for Joseph Henry PottsShoreditch and Stepney Shoreditch and Stepney 1921

A confusing entry, as Jospeh married? maybe it is not them

20262

[Elaine]

That's ok, I was trying to find any references to the Joseph Potts marriages or family looking for witnesses but there is also a chap born in London with much the same details and all the the listings are Joseph so no joy there.

[Elaine]

is this Joseph jnr?

Joseph Henry Potts 1899 age 27 yrs death 1926 Shoreditch 1c/47

don't think it's been mentioned

[cbcarolyn]

Looks like his death :( I don't know if Val had a death to start with.

I can't decide if this is senior?
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/DURRG11_4896_4900-0142?pid=3883961&treeid=161314848&personid=222133377449&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi16162&_phstart=successSource

Elizabeth is from Chorley

Name: Henry Potts
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relationship to Head: Son
Father: George Potts
Mother: Elizabeth Potts
Gender: Male
Where born: Castleside, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Stockton on Tees
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address: 6 Kingston Street
Education:


Employment status:


View image
Registration district: Stockton
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4897
Folio: 19
Page Number: 31
Household Members:
Name Age
George Potts 29
Elizabeth Potts 23
Henry Potts 3

[Val wish Id never started]

Hi again been adding some of the stuff to my tree ,will check it all later, but all looks good.
Amazing I only had Sarah up to 1891, and now thanks to you I have so much stuff, thanks again:good:

[Elaine]

That's the one I was looking at last night, Elizabeth is as Tootell 1871 in Trimdon and brother Thomas.

Looking at it, there is only one Joseph Potts 1901 I can see in London, our man; I can't account for this marriage on FMP

Q4 1896 Stepney
Joseph Potts to Catherine Elizabeth Ely, Ann Sissons

[teasie]

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 for Joseph Henry PottsShoreditch and Stepney Shoreditch and Stepney 1921

A confusing entry, as Jospeh married? maybe it is not them

An interesting entry though, as Essex Street (No 18) was one of the addresses on the Removal Order

[cbcarolyn]

That's the one I was looking at last night, Elizabeth is as Tootell 1871 in Trimdon and brother Thomas.

Looking at it, there is only one Joseph Potts 1901 I can see in London, our man; I can't account for this marriage on FMP

Q4 1896 Stepney
Joseph Potts to Catherine Elizabeth Ely, Ann Sissons

I can't see them on the census either.

[cbcarolyn]

An interesting entry though, as Essex Street (No 18) was one of the addresses on the Removal Order

That is why I thought it was right, there are several entries that match with the addresses on the order, so assumed I was on right track. Maybe his wife died, but can't see it with a glance.

[teasie]

Looks like his death :( I don't know if Val had a death to start with.

I can't decide if this is senior?
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/DURRG11_4896_4900-0142?pid=3883961&treeid=161314848&personid=222133377449&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi16162&_phstart=successSource


Living in my home town! Yes, it looks to me as though it's him. PoB is Castleside on this and also the 1911. Castleside is near Consett.

The road they were living on, Kingston Street, isn't there anymore, but if any of you watched Benefits Street a few years back [Kingston Road, Stockton], that's the exact area.

[teasie]

That is why I thought it was right, there are several entries that match with the addresses on the order, so assumed I was on right track. Maybe his wife died, but can't see it with a glance.

Sorry if I'm being slow, but the entry you snipped had Sarah on it too.

[teasie]

I'm trying to decide if Joseph Potts, Service No. 3892 & 266156, Middlesex Regiment is him. Birth year given as 1877, and addresses listed as 84 Welbury Street, Dalston (Hackney), 31 Casterton Place, Hackney (Demob address), and 14 Barnsley House, Barnsley Street, Bethnal Green. Unfortunately its one of the burnt records so some information is lost.

[teasie]

There's a newspaper report in 1922 that I think may be the son. The headline is 'Twenty Policemen To Arrest One Man', the man being Joseph Potts, carman, 25! It mentions him being outside a house in Essex Street, then going inside & coming back out with a big log of wood and threatening to bash the policeman's brains out with it. He then wrenched out some iron railings and threw them at the police, and later on threw glass, flower pots and pieces of iron at them. Blimey!

[cbcarolyn]

Sorry if I'm being slow, but the entry you snipped had Sarah on it too.
sorry went to bed!
I found marriage for Joseph junior before 1922, and thought he would be with wife as in post 45, I can't find a death for her. or maybe she too young to get on there then, I think you had to be over 30 so that would make sense, until 1928.

[cbcarolyn]

There's a newspaper report in 1922 that I think may be the son. The headline is 'Twenty Policemen To Arrest One Man', the man being Joseph Potts, carman, 25! It mentions him being outside a house in Essex Street, then going inside & coming back out with a big log of wood and threatening to bash the policeman's brains out with it. He then wrenched out some iron railings and threw them at the police, and later on threw glass, flower pots and pieces of iron at them. Blimey!

ooh, sounds nasty, what had he done. certainly sounds like him

[cbcarolyn]

I'm trying to decide if Joseph Potts, Service No. 3892 & 266156, Middlesex Regiment is him. Birth year given as 1877, and addresses listed as 84 Welbury Street, Dalston (Hackney), 31 Casterton Place, Hackney (Demob address), and 14 Barnsley House, Barnsley Street, Bethnal Green. Unfortunately its one of the burnt records so some information is lost.

I found reg of electors
1907 and 8 at Wickham street
1912 Mill row
1921 Essex Street

[cbcarolyn]

in 1923 there is only Joseph Henry Potts in Essex street

then in the 1930s there is a Jospeh Henry Potts in 56 Oldfield street with Joseph Thomas Henry and Mary Ann Louisa

[Chrissie Smiff]

then in the 1930s there is a Jospeh Henry Potts in 56 Oldfield street with Joseph Thomas Henry and Mary Ann Louisa

That family in 1939 are Joseph Thomas H Potts born 1875 with his wife Mary Ann Louise nee Wright who he married in 1906 and the son Joseph H Potts born 1917 -
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61596/tna_r39_0567_0567b_014?pid=8961674&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db%3D1939UKRegister%26indiv%3Dtry%26h%3D89 61674&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.258877322.1406066886.1569669295-22690376.1569143934#?imageId=tna_r39_0567_0567b_01 4

[Chrissie Smiff]

I'm not really 'on top' of this thread but has someone discounted this death please? As I can't find a likely birth and the age is almost right isn't it?

Deaths Mar 1926 - Potts Joseph H 27 Shoreditch 1c 47

[cbcarolyn]

I didn't like the look of the Oldfield Street lot, so glad that has discounted them.

Elaine posted the Death post 76 :)

[teasie]

I'm not really 'on top' of this thread but has someone discounted this death please? As I can't find a likely birth and the age is almost right isn't it?

Deaths Mar 1926 - Potts Joseph H 27 Shoreditch 1c 47

Post #76 identified this as the son's likely death, but we don't have absolute confirmation.

[cbcarolyn]

Looks like his death :( I don't know if Val had a death to start with.

I can't decide if this is senior?
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/DURRG11_4896_4900-0142?pid=3883961&treeid=161314848&personid=222133377449&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi16162&_phstart=successSource

Elizabeth is from Chorley

Name Age
George Potts 29
Elizabeth Potts 23
Henry Potts 3


Living in my home town! Yes, it looks to me as though it's him. PoB is Castleside on this and also the 1911. Castleside is near Consett.

The road they were living on, Kingston Street, isn't there anymore, but if any of you watched Benefits Street a few years back [Kingston Road, Stockton], that's the exact area.

How funny they are in your home town :)

Joseph Henry (George Thomas) is just Henry - which is what is confusing

[Val wish Id never started]

Blimey you have all been busy I cannot keep up, am getting old you know :rotfl:, shall be reading through and making notes.
That Newspaper report looks interesting too.
Thanks all:)

[GallowayLass]

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 for Joseph Henry PottsShoreditch and Stepney Shoreditch and Stepney 1921

A confusing entry, as Jospeh married? maybe it is not them

Ooh! Well found. Amazed that since I sloped off to bed last night the amount of info found has growed like Topsy.

[teasie]

I still don't know where Joseph goes after Sarah's death though - can anyone else find him? He had a torrid few years by the looks of it, with his wife, son & daughter all dying:

KEEN, SARAH aged 43 GRO Reference: 1922 J Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 114 (also on FreeBMD as Potts)
CLAYDEN, SARAH aged 21 GRO Reference: 1923 J Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 61
POTTS, JOSEPH HENRY aged 27 GRO Reference: 1926 M Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 47

[cbcarolyn]

I still don't know where Joseph goes after Sarah's death though - can anyone else find him? He had a torrid few years by the looks of it, with his wife, son & daughter all dying:

KEEN, SARAH aged 43 GRO Reference: 1922 J Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 114 (also on FreeBMD as Potts)
CLAYDEN, SARAH aged 21 GRO Reference: 1923 J Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 61
POTTS, JOSEPH HENRY aged 27 GRO Reference: 1926 M Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 47
I saw the death for daughter Sarah, I did wonder if her husband is in the reg of elector that I put up earlier, spelt Claydon. He remarries. I hadn't found the death or Sarah Keen. He maybe with one of the other children.

[Val wish Id never started]

so much has been added I've lost the plot, thanks all, am slowly going through it.:)

[teasie]

He maybe with one of the other children.

I'm struggling with them too! It looks like Arthur may have joined the East Surrey Regiment 17 Aug 1927, Service No. 6137610, claiming to be 18 and giving his DoB as 23 Mar 1909, Hoxton (his baptism gives his DoB as 22 Mar 1910). Discharged 15 Dec 1930

[cbcarolyn]

so much has been added I've lost the plot, thanks all, am slowly going through it.:)
:) ha ha

[Val wish Id never started]

snot funny gone from not knowing anything to all this info, which I really did not expect.:good:

Might put another one on as you all seem to be bored.:rotfl:

[Chrissie Smiff]

They are all so good these days aren't they Val. When I get time I am planning to put up a thread to see if anyone can help now with finding out what happened to my other Ligna Vita (Jnr) who I lost after she was 13.

[cbcarolyn]

snot funny gone from not knowing anything to all this info, which I really did not expect.:good:

Might put another one on as you all seem to be bored.:rotfl:
Well weather has changed now, and the nights are drawing in!

[Val wish Id never started]

I remember her Chrissie, thought you must have found her ???
Good point Carolyn :good:

[Val wish Id never started]

just to say thanks again have almost added all you found.

[Chrissie Smiff]

I remember her Chrissie, thought you must have found her ???
Good point Carolyn :good:

You must be feeling really chuffed Val. It's lovely when you sort an old mystery.

No I never found that one. I found Gt. Gt. Grandmother Ligna Vita but not the daughter of my Gt. Grandmother who had the same name. One day, when I'm not so busy, I hope to put up a thread with the details I already have on her. Would love to know what became of her. One of the later family members named their child the same and I did manage to trace her, though she changed her name slightly. Maybe the other did the same.

[Val wish Id never started]

hope you manage to find her, you are right I do feel chuffed, but more because what a lovely lot of people we have on here. :good: