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Thread: One last attempt to find a marriage

  1. #1

    One last attempt to find a marriage

    between Patrick Hogan and Catherine Dunn.
    First known child baptised Newcastle upon Tyne October 1855 - Michael Hogan, s/o Patrick Hogan & Catherine Dunn. However, the birth was registered as Michael DUNN and the baby died in the same quarter (both events registered Q4 1855.)
    4 more children born 1856 - 1863, all registered as HOGAN with mmn Dunn.
    Patrick and Catherine were Irish & RC and all the children were bp in RC churches in N/T. They lived in Newcastle on Tyne in 1861, Catherine believed to have died there in 1868, aged 34 years. I have sent for her death registration, which will come through next week, hopefully.

    I have full details on all the children as they grew up, married and emigrated to the USA, although the youngest one stayed in the Northumberland coalfield. Their father Patrick never remarried and died in N/T in 1874.
    It's just the marriage I'm lacking to tie up the loose end. Here's an earlier thread of mine about them

    https://www.familytreeforum.com/show...ighlight=Hogan

    Thanks for looking.
    Jay
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

  2. #2
    I can't find a marriage using various alternatives Janet - sorry.

  3. #3
    Thanks for trying Chrissie My Irish couples are absolute nightmares when it comes to trying to find marriages - I suppose I somewhat naively thought the priest would have wanted to see them all married in accordance with RC rites. Perhaps they only chased up couples where one party was non RC ???

    Jay
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

  4. #4
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    so the baptisms were in different churches? The only thing I would check is the records of first church to see if the marriage was on there - I assume you will have done that though, as you seem to covered all angles. I guess you don't know if they married in Ireland? do you think some came across and never actually married, and the church would be none the wiser?
    Carolyn

    Researching:Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon
    Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
    Plant, Skinner - Lincs ....all moved to London
    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

  5. #5
    Did they get married in Ireland before they arrived in Northumberland?
    Some of mine went to Yorkshire in the 1830s but married in Ireland before they came. Never found the marriage but I assume they did as the first child was born there!
    Anne

  6. #6
    Thanks for your interest Carolyn.
    The last Hogan child was bp in a different Newcastle church, but I think that could have been due to the family moving to a different part of the city.
    The first child of Patrick & Catherine was bp Hogan but his birth (and death) were registered as Dunn (no mmn name at birth registration.) Next child was registered in 1856 as Hogan, mmn name Dunn. This surname difference should indicate that a marriage had taken place between the two births, mother changing from Miss Dunn to Mrs McDonough. However, I can find no E/W marriage registration. Civil registration of RC marriages in Ireland was not until 1864 - before that it's a case of sifting through individual parishes, I've done a bit, but definitely not for the faint hearted!
    It seems that the images of the marriage register for St Mary's church N/Tyne is now only viewable at a LDS centre (the two nearest to me are in obscure locations, only open at "odd" hours and not accessible by public transport from where I live; there is no transcription of the register on the LDS site as far as I can see.
    I'm coming to the view that the priests just didn't bother whether or not their flock had married. I'm sure couples would have had to have either a civil marriage as well, or the registrar in attendance - I had thought that perhaps they'd just had a marriage service and a nuptial mass in their local RC church, which is why I've spent hours searching through any available RC parish marriage registers I can get my hands on. It seems as if about half of my gang just didn't bother with marriage though. Very aggravating as names of fathers could have SOOOO useful in establishing family links. and also in making Irish records research more feasible.

    Jay
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

  7. #7
    Thanks for your comments Anne. Until I found the 1855 birth registration, I had thought that they had probably married in Ireland and had their first child before coming over. Now I don't think so.
    I'm also missing the marriage for Julia Dunn, who I think could well have been Catherine's sister. I can't prove it, but I think Julia's bridegroom,his siblings and mother were all in N/Tyne in 1851. This pair got together c1859.
    They were living with a third couple at 1861 census - this couple had a one month old baby at census, recorded with father's surname & mmn. I have since found their marriage, but it was in Middlesbrough and took place towards the end on 1861, so they were fibbing too!

    Jay
    Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 13-04-19 at 15:54.
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

  8. #8
    Do you know who Julia married

  9. #9
    Jay

    You may have already gone down this route. I wonder if the Northumberland and Durham FHS have any cds for sale or if a local member would check out the St Mary's marriages for you at the Tyne and Wear Archives.

    Cant see the local priest in my locale continuing to baptise children without knowing parents were married. However they lived in the City so things may have been different but no, still cant see it happening.

    I will widen my search.

    Vera

  10. #10
    77c4e2e5-2d82-4e9e-998e-b7591b17dc08 (1).jpg
    that cert is in somebodies tree on ancestry

    Val

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