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    One last attempt to find a marriage

    between Patrick Hogan and Catherine Dunn.
    First known child baptised Newcastle upon Tyne October 1855 - Michael Hogan, s/o Patrick Hogan & Catherine Dunn. However, the birth was registered as Michael DUNN and the baby died in the same quarter (both events registered Q4 1855.)
    4 more children born 1856 - 1863, all registered as HOGAN with mmn Dunn.
    Patrick and Catherine were Irish & RC and all the children were bp in RC churches in N/T. They lived in Newcastle on Tyne in 1861, Catherine believed to have died there in 1868, aged 34 years. I have sent for her death registration, which will come through next week, hopefully.

    I have full details on all the children as they grew up, married and emigrated to the USA, although the youngest one stayed in the Northumberland coalfield. Their father Patrick never remarried and died in N/T in 1874.
    It's just the marriage I'm lacking to tie up the loose end. Here's an earlier thread of mine about them

    https://www.familytreeforum.com/show...ighlight=Hogan

    Thanks for looking.
    Jay
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

    #2
    I can't find a marriage using various alternatives Janet - sorry.
    Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for trying Chrissie My Irish couples are absolute nightmares when it comes to trying to find marriages - I suppose I somewhat naively thought the priest would have wanted to see them all married in accordance with RC rites. Perhaps they only chased up couples where one party was non RC ???

      Jay
      Janet in Yorkshire



      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

      Comment


        #4
        so the baptisms were in different churches? The only thing I would check is the records of first church to see if the marriage was on there - I assume you will have done that though, as you seem to covered all angles. I guess you don't know if they married in Ireland? do you think some came across and never actually married, and the church would be none the wiser?
        Carolyn
        Family Tree site

        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

        Comment


          #5
          Did they get married in Ireland before they arrived in Northumberland?
          Some of mine went to Yorkshire in the 1830s but married in Ireland before they came. Never found the marriage but I assume they did as the first child was born there!
          Anne

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks for your interest Carolyn.
            The last Hogan child was bp in a different Newcastle church, but I think that could have been due to the family moving to a different part of the city.
            The first child of Patrick & Catherine was bp Hogan but his birth (and death) were registered as Dunn (no mmn name at birth registration.) Next child was registered in 1856 as Hogan, mmn name Dunn. This surname difference should indicate that a marriage had taken place between the two births, mother changing from Miss Dunn to Mrs McDonough. However, I can find no E/W marriage registration. Civil registration of RC marriages in Ireland was not until 1864 - before that it's a case of sifting through individual parishes, I've done a bit, but definitely not for the faint hearted!
            It seems that the images of the marriage register for St Mary's church N/Tyne is now only viewable at a LDS centre (the two nearest to me are in obscure locations, only open at "odd" hours and not accessible by public transport from where I live; there is no transcription of the register on the LDS site as far as I can see.
            I'm coming to the view that the priests just didn't bother whether or not their flock had married. I'm sure couples would have had to have either a civil marriage as well, or the registrar in attendance - I had thought that perhaps they'd just had a marriage service and a nuptial mass in their local RC church, which is why I've spent hours searching through any available RC parish marriage registers I can get my hands on. It seems as if about half of my gang just didn't bother with marriage though. Very aggravating as names of fathers could have SOOOO useful in establishing family links.;D and also in making Irish records research more feasible.

            Jay
            Janet in Yorkshire



            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks for your comments Anne. Until I found the 1855 birth registration, I had thought that they had probably married in Ireland and had their first child before coming over. Now I don't think so.
              I'm also missing the marriage for Julia Dunn, who I think could well have been Catherine's sister. I can't prove it, but I think Julia's bridegroom,his siblings and mother were all in N/Tyne in 1851. This pair got together c1859.
              They were living with a third couple at 1861 census - this couple had a one month old baby at census, recorded with father's surname & mmn. I have since found their marriage, but it was in Middlesbrough and took place towards the end on 1861, so they were fibbing too!

              Jay
              Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 13-04-19, 14:54.
              Janet in Yorkshire



              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

              Comment


                #8
                Do you know who Julia married

                Comment


                  #9
                  Jay

                  You may have already gone down this route. I wonder if the Northumberland and Durham FHS have any cds for sale or if a local member would check out the St Mary's marriages for you at the Tyne and Wear Archives.

                  Cant see the local priest in my locale continuing to baptise children without knowing parents were married. However they lived in the City so things may have been different but no, still cant see it happening.

                  I will widen my search.

                  Vera

                  Comment


                    #10
                    77c4e2e5-2d82-4e9e-998e-b7591b17dc08 (1).jpg
                    that cert is in somebodies tree on ancestry


                    Val

                    Comment


                      #11
                      ooh that was a good spot Val
                      Carolyn
                      Family Tree site

                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thanks ladies.
                        Vera, a lady on a Northumberland site has today kindly offered to look at the St Mary's marriages the next time she goes to her local LDS family history site. I'm not sure it will be there as the LDS site doesn't seem to have a transcription, but it would be nice to know that that avenue has been explored. Also, it would be good to know the name of Catherine's father.
                        Val, thanks for that image - I sent off last night for the PDF of Catherin's death. What a pity I didn't post this thread yesterday!! I do look at Ancestry trees from time to time, especially for my stickies, to see if anyone has recently found anything of significance to give me a clue. It wasn't on there last time I looked, so I'll go over there and have a look.
                        Janet, Julia married (or otherwise) Michael McDonough. I have hoped for years that Catherine and Julia might have been sisters, or related in some other way. However I can't find anything to confirm or negate this theory - see the link in my opening post.

                        Jay
                        Janet in Yorkshire



                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Is this too far left field?

                          Martin Hogan to Catherine McDonough Dec 1855 Birmingham 6d 302

                          OC

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks OC, but I think it rather is too far left field.

                            Val, I can't find that image on Ancestry - is it in the family trees section, or in another group of records?

                            Jay
                            Janet in Yorkshire



                            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                            Comment


                              #15
                              its on the Public member trees,


                              Val

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Thanks Val. Still haven't found it, but I know different results come up according to what and how much data you put in the search box.

                                I'll keep on trying.

                                Jay
                                Janet in Yorkshire



                                Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  trying to find it again not having much luck


                                  Val

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    I've found it now Val, thanks for pointing that out. It was put on by a lady I corresponded with some years ago - she is a descendent of Patrick and Catherine, but I am not. I see she has also added the death cert for Patrick.

                                    Jay
                                    Janet in Yorkshire



                                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      found it

                                      https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tr...54814867/facts


                                      Val

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Thanks Val

                                        Jay
                                        Janet in Yorkshire



                                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                        Comment

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