Old lady behind the hidden woman

[Jill on the A272]

I think she also has a fur collar. It also occurs to me that the chair looks rather less fancy than some I've seen.

[Olde Crone Holden]

My aunties weren't well off, what you might call respectable working class, but they all had furs, usually marten rather than fox because that was cheaper. The lady in the photo isn't wearing marten though.

OC

[cbcarolyn]

If it's fur than it indicates someone reasonably well off, I don't know if the "tail" is that or a smudge.

...that was what I was thinking, and if beaver I think even more. I can't decide if a smudge either. maybe in real life it might just be better.

if someone was a budding artist, it may have even been painted from a photo anyway. And this is just a hobby painting.

[grumpy]

Apart from a fox fur with imitation eyes my grandmother used to use a fur hand warmer. Maybe it is that.
My guess on the age would be between 1875 and early 1900’s.

[Jill on the A272]

what is that on her lap some kind of mink stole? with head included? I have no expertise at all, but was wondering if that would help date it?

If it's fur than it indicates someone reasonably well off, I don't know if the "tail" is that or a smudge.

The problem is - my Victorian aunties were still we aring toques andfox furs well into the 50s, waste not want not, you know, so your photo could be any time from about 1900 to 1960!

There, wasn't that helpful!

OC

There used to be a fox fur in the dressing up box with a flat dried head and glass eyes at my primary school in the 60s, the modern generation would have forty fits!

My uncle thinks it's his mother's side of the family, as he says there were photographers in Littlehampton which produced this sort of thing. I was leaning towards his father's side who we know had more money, but we already have beautiful photos of them rather than this effort.

I asked about the frame, plain oak 3" wide concave section, so not an expensive one, picture was in a beige oval mount.

[cbcarolyn]

maybe it is a pet on her lap hee hee

https://www.vestiairecollective.com/...-6635451.shtml

If it was beaver maybe not a person living in the UK?

[cbcarolyn]

The toque is the hat?

did find this

https://sammydvintage.com/vintage-style/fur-types/

but not sure it helps, odd it is on her lap, like a muff, but assume it to be a stole?

it seems to have a bushy tail, and not a fox head, a beaver?

but like you say could have had it for years and in fact years! Living somewhere cold....

[Olde Crone Holden]

The problem is - my Victorian aunties were still we aring toques andfox furs well into the 50s, waste not want not, you know, so your photo could be any time from about 1900 to 1960!

There, wasn't that helpful!

OC

[Jill on the A272]

Yes it does look very like a toque.

[cbcarolyn]

what is that on her lap some kind of mink stole? with head included? I have no expertise at all, but was wondering if that would help date it?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Immediately thought of the old Queen Mary who wore identical hats!

OC

[Jill on the A272]

The other day when my artist uncle took his own painting out of an old frame he knew there was a colourised photo of an unknown young woman underneath as it had hung in his parents' home all his life (he was born in 1935), but he didn't know that under that was yet another, of an old unhappy, cold looking old lady. No clues on the back just "B&C" has been scrawled on it. We don't know who she is.

I'd be interested in any suggestions of date based on the clothing or any other clues please.