Help with TNA? *sobs copiously*

[Janet]

OC

That sounds just like the Ogilvy maps, straight lines with offshoots and things like arable land written. They are wonderful maps to see. I know there is a book about them in the British Library because that is where I found the one I was interested in. It fascinated me.

Janet

[Olde Crone Holden]

I cannot offhand remember what it was called, but I remember seeing a prog on TV showing one of the earliest road maps.

It was my kind of map - all in a straight line, with various landmarks to encourage you. It was easy to see from that why a certain route had originally been chosen as being the easiest and best route between two (then) important places.

OC

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Maybe I could move in with you for a while, Nell? I think two years might be enough......

I really must get out a decent map and study where all these places are that my rellies moved between in your area.

[Janet]

Little Nell

Oh yes, Hitchin was oops is an old, very interesting place, pardon my flippant remarks earlier! What you say has always intrigued as many of my ancestors trod south from Peterborough to Molesworth in Hunts and on through places like Kempston and through to Hitchin and when I moved to the other more S end of Herts many moons ago now, I remember thinking that i had no Herts connections!! How wrong I was. Better get the spelling right this time but the old late 1600 Ogilvy maps are very interesting as they link these places in very nicely and I am now trying to get hold of one from Molesworth going south to Hitchin.

On another note is it you that is interested in a John Chown widower from Burford Oxon which marriage took place in 1811?

Janet

[Little Nell]

Erm, I live in Hitchin! It was a coach staging post in the old days when folk travelled by horse. Then, when the railway was built, Hitchin was a junction for folk travelling to Bedford and on to Leicester (this railway has been dismantled) and is still a stop on the way to Cambridge and Peterborough and further north.

The route connecting London and Bedford via Hitchin is very old and established.

[Janet]

Ah, I remember the M1 being built! Those were the days. It was so quiet back then on the roads! No, the Ogilvie maps are something to see and worth looking for sometime. Can't remember the exact date but I think they are about 1670ish. Google and see what comes up.

Do you know I have just googled and can't find it. Now that's bugging me! That's the first time that google has let me down! I have a copy of one that goes from Oundle in Northants South to Molesworth in Hunts, taking in all my villages of interest. A modern map has you wondering how they wandered from village to village but this Ogilvie map makes you realise just how easy it was. If I find more info I will come back!

Janet

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I didn't realise the M1 had been around so long!!!

[Janet]

Hm, Hitchen Herts. Thats another place I have found some of my Northants lot. I suppose it is straight down the M1 from Northants and Beds! Maybe just a bit to the left depending which way you are travelling. Oh yes Border County living should not be allowed. I have Rutland/Leicester/Hunts/Beds and Bucks to think about besides Northants and my lot disappear about 1633 and to/from which county??

If you can get hold of a 1600+Ogilvie map for this area you will find how interesting the route would have looked. I know they have them in the British Library and have seen them in Secondhand book shops. worth asking if you have any 2 nd hand bookshops near you. i have one for the Oundle area, copy that is not original.

Sorry to have deprived you of your possible Irish ancestors but I can only get mine back to 1798 and that is where the church registers finish in Tipperary!

Janet

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I presume you have seen all the Bedford Maynards on the IGI. They are obviously a very old Bedford family, and your Robert was an incomer and an interloper!

Janet

Yes, I have (IGI)

Maybe they were there for centuries, but my lot were beamed in from Mars or somewhere! Susanna's grandfather (don't know whether maternal or paternal) lived in Hitchen, Herts.

I don't think living on a county boundary should be allowed :(

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Susannah's father was a yeoman farmer on his will, but goodness knows what he did when he was younger? He died within 8 months of writing his will, but he doesn't seem to have been buried anywhere. Nor does his wife (whose name I don't know, but I have her rough date of death....no burial for her either!)

Anyway....I digress! lol

I was only thinking Robert might have been RC if he was from Ireland, not if he was born in Bedfordshire!! I wouldn't mind if he was Irish as I'm not concerned with his ancestry......At least I could imagine he had kissed the Blarney Stone and chatted her up with his soft southern accent!! lololol

[Janet]

Probably not RC as that part of the world is very Cof E in Bedford, with a lot of nonconformist around the borders of Northants and in Northants itself. Kempston is another of my border crossing areas! Please do not wish him to be from Ireland because that is where your problems would really start, believe me! Maybe being a soldier was "beneath" the family? Soldiers were rough/tough/nasty creatures, who did not know their manners and not good enough for Miss Susannah Maynard, even her name sounds classy! Of course her father may have been an officer in a different regiment! Now that would have caused a problem!

I presume you have seen all the Bedford Maynards on the IGI. They are obviously a very old Bedford family, and your Robert was an incomer and an interloper!

Janet

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Susannah was "of Kempston" and Robert was OPT (St Pauls Bedford), but he only needed to have resided there for the three weeks the banns were read :( He may have been born in Ireland of course. Perhaps he was RC? That might not have gone down well!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Yes, I imagined Susanna was underage - Robert must have been worth having!! lol

I think a lot of this family were non-conformist, which isn't helping at all :(


I have seen the PR and banns register regarding the wedding. "Forbid by father" was the note in the Kempston register the first time they had the banns read. A similar comment was written by the vicar at St Paul's Bedford at their second attempt. This was where they eventually tied the knot a few months later. It's an assumption this was Susannah's father doing the forbidding, but having read his will I am pretty certain. Susannah's father did offer to pay for the apprenticeships for his grandsons as long as she didn't live with Robert, so he was only anti Robert and not his descendents, which seems fairly liberal for the times!

Aaaagggghhh......I so want to know what happened!! lolol I just looked to see how long I have known of Robert McCreary? 11 years and he's still hiding!

I'm going to see what I can find out about the 14th reg now.

Thanks for your encouragement!

[Janet]

Merry

14th Regt looks correct. This is the Bucks Regt? Bletsoe Beds is close to the Northants border, as I have some of mine slipping over the border to Bletsoe. Sounds as though Susannah Maynard may have been underage for father to have stopped marriage twice. There could be some interesting comments in the register about this wedding!! Oh dear it looks as though you also need to go to Beds CRO as well as Kew! Only a sight of the register will tell you whether or not both parties were OTP. If they were not OTP then the register will tell you where they are from. Maybe the father was working for the Oliver St John Family of Bletsoe! It does look like some very interesting FH, but you need the time to get at it! You could try googling 14 Regiment to see if you can find out where Regt was in the 1750's.

Thanks for the home Link to London Gazette. I will look for one of my early ones later.

Janet

[annswabey]

I didn't say they were all on the catalogue. Just those discharged up to 1854. Also, you HAVE to know the regiment for those who left up to 1873, as they are filed by regiment. Only after that are they filed alphabetically for the whole army, so it's not necessary to know the regiment.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Merry,

I thought that you could only get Boer War, W War 1 and W War 2 through the London Gazette online?

Janet, I used this link:

Home

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Oh, all right! I give up....I wasn't going to post this!!

Name Robert MCCREARY (McCrery, M'Crery, MacCrery, MacCreary etc etc etc!!)

Born....no idea

Married Susannah MAYNARD at St Paul's Bedford in 1759.
Banns register gives Robert's occ as soldier.
Wedding had been stopped twice in 1757 and 1758 by Susannah's father

In 1766 Susannah's father died. She was left various sums in his will but all were conditional that she not live with her "present husband". In the will it also stated that Susannah had three sons all aged under 14 and they are the children of "her present husband". Susannah's surname is not mentioned, whilst the surnames of all the other married daughters are!!

A family tree written in 1906 gives the children of Robert and Susannah as Robert, William and David (no dates or places). This tree has proved correct as far as I have been able to verify.

1778 Rt Mc Crery, sergeant in 14th Regiment of Foot, was involved in an assault case following a recruitment drive at Bletsoe, Beds.

1779 Promoted to Quartermaster (14th Foot)

1780 Promoted to Ensign (14th Foot)

1803 Susannah's younger brother (my 3xg-grandfather) has an illegal marriage to his dec'd wife's niece a long way from home at St George Bloomsbury. One of the witnesses was Robert McCrery of Orange St, Bloomsbury. He could be father or son (I feel he is the son). As could the following:

1814 Sun Fire Poilcy re Robert McCrery of 2 Orange St Bloomsbury, tinman

1815 will proved for Robert McCrery of Orange St Bloomsbury (no occ given). Widow Mary. Mentions two sons, Robert and William.

[Janet]

Merry,

The London Gazette entries should give you a regiment. I thought that you could only get Boer War, W War 1 and W War 2 through the London Gazette online?

Was he married whilst in the army and have you got his Marriage Cert? Were his children baptised whilst he was in the army? Have you got any certs for the children?

Janet

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Oooh, I ve just found a couple of entries in the London Gazette (why didn't I think to look there before?? :()

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Thanks for that Janet.

There's no way I could go to Kew for one day never mind more, so I would have to have someone else do the work for me.

The trouble is, the person I am interested in isn't even my relative and I don't know whether anything that I find about him with regard to his army service will be of any use to me (feeling the Christmas pinch - I don't know if I can afford to find these records on a hunch!). His marriage into my family caused "waves" for about 50 years though, so he is quite an important character, despite not being related!

I know so little about him. I know his name, when and to whom he married (at the third attempt!), that he had three sons within the next 8 years (don't know exactly when or at all where, but do probably have their names). I don't know when or where he was born or when or where he died nor what happened to his wife and children. There was another marriage between his son or grandson and a cousin on my tree but I don't know when or where or to which cousin!

This bit of my tree is like a fishing net!! lolol Loads of holes!

Sorry, I'm rambling!