Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Macleods and Frasers of London

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Macleods and Frasers of London

    Hello all,

    My name is Matthew and I am researching some of my supposedly scottish ancestors. I have now hit what appears to be a brick wall. I have a marriage between a David Fraser and a Marion MacLeod in 1780 at St. George's Hanover Square in London, nowhere near Scotland. I only have the Pallot's Marriage Index card for them which gives the husbands parish as St. James' Westminster. I am sure that Marion must have also comes from an important family as the MacLeod name has been passed down through my family.

    If anyone has any ideas where I could go from here I would be most grateful. I have mainly been using Ancestry for my research.

    Thank you all,
    Matthew Carr

    #2
    They were married at St George Hanover Square on 15 Feb 1780. David Fraser was of St James Westminster and Marion was of 'this parish' (St George H Squ). Both signed their names.

    Witnesses were Alex[ander] Macleod and Arch[ibald] Campbell.

    So no help there except all the names are obviously Scottish.

    Anne
    Last edited by Anne in Carlisle; 12-09-19, 11:04.

    Comment


      #3
      Are you able to bring them forward into the census years? Important families often had homes in London as well as their ancestral seats elsewhere.

      OC

      Comment


        #4
        Sadly I don't think the lived long enough to come up in census. Their descendants related to me lived in St. Marylebone at the earliest census date. Another child lived in India as a Captain in the East India Company. David Fraser apparently was a harness maker and member of the Society of Arts. The Scottish names simply must mean a link, it's just there's no way to find out.

        Comment


          #5
          Try looking for the apprenticeship indenture for David Fraser. If he was apprenticed in London hopefully his papers may be recorded. I know some are online but sorry I’m not sure where exactly. Hopefully someone will point you in the right direction. The East India Company kept good records,try looking in the National Archives online catalogue and also on FIBIS for him (Families in British India Society) https://www.fibis.org/ You will need a sub to see FIBIS records.
          Last edited by GallowayLass; 12-09-19, 18:27.

          Comment


            #6
            I want to note this David as it's niggling me..

            I found a newspaper clip of a David Fraser who is an army accoutrement maker in the newspaper and the one mainly in the Westminster rate books in St. James.

            There is a will for a David Frazer in the same area with the same occupation

            David Frazer
            Probate Date: 10 Apr 1809
            Residence: Golden Square, Middlesex, England

            https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...off=&ml_rpos=2

            but as far as I can make out says 5 heirs and names ? Donald Mcleod as executor, it's just David's signature I am not sure of.
            Attached Files
            Last edited by Elaine; 12-09-19, 21:30.
            Elaine

            Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

            http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
            http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

            Comment


              #7
              This is probably not relevant, but half my tree is Scottish and I found that many Davids were actually Daniels and that Donald is the Gaelic form of Daniel!

              OC

              Comment


                #8
                Looking up the MacLeods. The Donald MacLeod may be a brother of Marion as one of the records I found relating to Marion was a baptism on 20th Dec 1759 with a Donald Macleod as her father in Ardersier near Inverness and Culloden. If it's them then it's interesting as to why they have travelled so far south.

                Comment


                  #9
                  There's a will for a Donald too, wasn't too sure on that one.
                  Elaine

                  Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                  http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                  http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                    This is probably not relevant, but half my tree is Scottish and I found that many Davids were actually Daniels and that Donald is the Gaelic form of Daniel!

                    OC
                    That's not quite right, OC...Donald is the English form of the Gaelic name Domhnull....which is pronounced roughly Dohull....which when heard and transcribed by a non-Gaelic speaker was often interpreted as Daniel!
                    Kind regards,
                    William
                    Current focus of research: The Macleods of Lewis, especially those of the Point district.
                    Of particular interest are Macleod families with men by the name of Torquil.
                    Please see my user page for more detail...and pm me if we might share research!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Wulliam

                      I stand corrected! I just noticed that all the Donalds turned into Daniels around 1750 and ASSUMED (lol) it was a matter of accents- my umpty times great grandfather and his wife were Donald and Grizel one year, the next they were Daniel and Grace!

                      The Daniel/David confusion is entirely to do with copperplate writing, the outline of the two names is identical.

                      OC

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by wulliam View Post
                        That's not quite right, OC...Donald is the English form of the Gaelic name Domhnull....which is pronounced roughly Dohull....which when heard and transcribed by a non-Gaelic speaker was often interpreted as Daniel!
                        Hi William,
                        I know this may not be in your field of expertise but have you ever heard of a Macleod family that was living in London in the 1780s? I may rightly or wrongly presume they were of some importance given the Macleod passed on through our family as a surname and is the tartan we wear.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by MJLCarr View Post
                          Hi William,
                          I know this may not be in your field of expertise but have you ever heard of a Macleod family that was living in London in the 1780s? I may rightly or wrongly presume they were of some importance given the Macleod passed on through our family as a surname and is the tartan we wear.
                          Hi! I've spent the last hour or so perusing various books I have looking for a Marion Macleod who married a Fraser. Nothing so far, but I'll keep looking!
                          Kind regards,
                          William
                          Current focus of research: The Macleods of Lewis, especially those of the Point district.
                          Of particular interest are Macleod families with men by the name of Torquil.
                          Please see my user page for more detail...and pm me if we might share research!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Hi again,
                            I've spent some more time looking through what I have, but haven't had any luck.
                            Do any descendants of David & Marion have any other distinctive Scottish names which may have been passed down from their families?
                            Also, are there any male line descendants of David alive? If so, a Y-DNA test (probably with FTDNA who have an extensive Macleod project) may point you towards one part of Scotland.
                            All the best with your future hunt!
                            Kind regards,
                            William
                            Current focus of research: The Macleods of Lewis, especially those of the Point district.
                            Of particular interest are Macleod families with men by the name of Torquil.
                            Please see my user page for more detail...and pm me if we might share research!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by wulliam View Post
                              Hi again,
                              I've spent some more time looking through what I have, but haven't had any luck.
                              Do any descendants of David & Marion have any other distinctive Scottish names which may have been passed down from their families?
                              Also, are there any male line descendants of David alive? If so, a Y-DNA test (probably with FTDNA who have an extensive Macleod project) may point you towards one part of Scotland.
                              All the best with your future hunt!
                              Sadly not. They had two daughters called Amelia and Jane and a son called John Small Henry. That's about it

                              Comment


                                #16
                                I can see x 6 children for a David and Marion Fraser bap St James, Westminster. Only one with a Scottish middle name ie Archibald Campbell Fraser b 1783. One other was a General in the E India Madras Infantry (14th)

                                FMP have Westminster St James bap registers to browse. Have looked from 1850 but not seeing a David Fraser but likely to have been bap Scotland.

                                David Fraser not in Ancestry indenture registers

                                Vera
                                Last edited by vera2013; 20-09-19, 14:03.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by vera2013 View Post

                                  FMP have Westminster St James bap registers to browse. Have looked from 1850 but not seeing a David Fraser but likely to have been bap Scot
                                  EDIT looked from 1750

                                  Vera
                                  Last edited by vera2013; 20-09-19, 21:56.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                                    I can see x 6 children for a David and Marion Fraser bap St James, Westminster. Only one with a Scottish middle name ie Archibald Campbell Fraser b 1783. One other was a General in the E India Madras Infantry (14th)

                                    FMP have Westminster St James bap registers to browse. Have looked from 1850 but not seeing a David Fraser but likely to have been bap Scotland.

                                    David Fraser not in Ancestry indenture registers

                                    Vera
                                    Hi Vera,
                                    I only have four children I've discovered. What children have you found?

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      1 Jane Fraser b 11/08/1781 bp 22/08/1781
                                      F David m Marion Westminster

                                      2 Archibald Campbell Fraser b 1783 bp 1783 St James, Westminster, f David m Marion
                                      ??? 30/04/1804/Allegation for m between Archibald Fraser 21 St Martin in the Field and Alice Davison 21 Kensington

                                      3 William Charles b 18/06/1784/bp 08/07/1784
                                      As above parents and church
                                      Army General
                                      Died 1859 Paddington buried All Souls Kensal Green

                                      4 John Small Henry Fraser b 14/02/1786 bp 16/03/
                                      1786
                                      As above church and parents
                                      Died 1868. Burial 18/01/1868 All Souls Kensal Green. Recorded to be in same grave as Wm Chas d 1859.

                                      5 David Alexander Fraser b 25/06/1787 bp 05/08/1787
                                      As above church, parents

                                      6 Amelia Fraser b 10/12/1789 bp 14/02/1790
                                      As above for Church and Parents
                                      M Christopher R Read 16/05/1811 St James Westminster

                                      Vera

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        There's quite a few references for the boys and Amelia's death is in the paper, but noticed this list

                                        https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...20ship&f=false



                                        he is with Donald 1813 also
                                        Attached Files
                                        Elaine

                                        Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                        http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                        http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X