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    I'm still searching for Pamela Kirk

    I know I've asked before, but I've never sorted this one, so I'm asking again, in the hope that perhaps we can crack it

    This is my earlier thread
    https://www.familytreeforum.com/show...ght=pamela+dix

    I've learned nothing new about Pamela in the meantime. However, I do have a note that she married Henry Dix 1 December 1859 at Gimingham and I suspect my source was familysearch ATs/BTs, which now seem unaccessible on the site.

    The other couple in the 1859 marriage set were Robert Glister and Elizabeth Middleton. I think I've found them living in Gimingham in 1861 & 1881, but as I can't attribute any children to them, I can't check mmn on GRO index to confirm it was Middleton.

    Henry Dix seems to have been a bit of a lad. Tried for theft and acquitted in January 1859, then in bother again for stealing and was in jail in 1861, saying he was single. I think he then married a Sarah Buck in Norwich in 1863 and continued to have brushes with the law. He and Sarah were still together in 1881 census.

    I've followed through Pamela's parents and relatives, but there's no trace of Pamela or of a possible husband or children. I think she probably died in childbirth before 1861 census, but I can't find either a death or burial record. From 1853 to 1883 Pamela's parents lived at Gimingham, but as far as I know, the original registers for that parish have not been filmed. I've looked at the Norfolk baptism site and haven't come across anything to suggest that Pamela had children - but it's not indexed and searches have to be done for individual parishes. Nothing for Gimingham though, nor for Scottow, Henry's home village.

    I don't seem to have the marriage certificate (unless I've not filed it away where it should be) but don't feel it would help really. Pamela was illegimate (curate named her reputed natural father in the bp register) and as she was the only Pamela Kirk around in Norfolk at the time, then I'd put money on the marriage being for her.

    Thanks for reading. All suggestions welcome!

    Jay
    Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 02-03-19, 14:17.
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

    #2
    Pamela Dix marries a John Orrey 10 Feb 1864 in Old Leake Lincolnshire?


    Val

    Comment


      #3
      Am on silly iPad and don't know how to copy and paste on it the image is on fire if you think it may be her


      Am on silly iPad and don't know how to copy and paste on it,image is on fire if you think it may be her
      Find my past not fire?...
      Last edited by Val wish Id never started; 02-03-19, 14:58.


      Val

      Comment


        #4
        Just realised she is mistranscribed as Pamala


        Val

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks for looking, Val. Sadly that lady's father was John Dix, so not my Pamela nee Kirk.

          Jay
          Janet in Yorkshire



          Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

          Comment


            #6
            Did he end up getting transported if he was up to no good? Not that helps find Pamela, she was only 16 when she got married :( and can see Hubbard family were pauper - poor Pamela.
            Carolyn
            Family Tree site

            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks for looking, Carolyn
              No, Henry wasn't transported - he and wife 2 lived out reasonable life spans in Scottow, Henry's native village.

              Jay
              Janet in Yorkshire



              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

              Comment


                #8
                have you seen this:

                http://tinstaafl.co.uk/nbp/Church_Pages/halvergate.htm

                it has a fathers name for Pamela

                pam1.JPG
                Carolyn
                Family Tree site

                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks Carolyn. I did know about the reputed father and from what I could find out, Dennis Olley seems to have been a widower, about 20 years older than Pamela's mother Elizabeth and with children about the same age as Elizabeth. Within 9 months of Pamela's birth Elizabeth married and she and her husband brought up Pamela. I don't think Denis Olley would have had anything to do with Pamela's upbringing and later life. She married as Kirk, so obviously didn't use either the Olley or Hubbard surname. I just wish I could find her in 1861, or her death prior to Henry Dix marrying again in 1863.

                  Jay
                  Janet in Yorkshire



                  Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Odd isn't it, coming from a small village, I thought you could just do an open search with birth place and birth date. But guess the place could be just Norfolk if she has moved. Pamela isn't a common name either which should make it easier. :(
                    Carolyn
                    Family Tree site

                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                      Odd isn't it, coming from a small village, I thought you could just do an open search with birth place and birth date. But guess the place could be just Norfolk if she has moved. Pamela isn't a common name either which should make it easier. :(
                      SHOULD but DOESN'T - not in this case anyhow! It's been a brickwall for about a decade I keep on going back to Pamela from time to time, but don't get anywhere, just end up frustrated. Sometimes Pamelas are recorded as the more familiar Emilias, but that hasn't helped.
                      My gut feeling is that she had probably died by 1861, which is why I can't find a census return for her -but in that case, there should have been a death registration for her and also a burial record.

                      Jay
                      Janet in Yorkshire



                      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
                        SHOULD but DOESN'T - not in this case anyhow! It's been a brickwall for about a decade I keep on going back to Pamela from time to time, but don't get anywhere, just end up frustrated. Sometimes Pamelas are recorded as the more familiar Emilias, but that hasn't helped.
                        My gut feeling is that she had probably died by 1861, which is why I can't find a census return for her -but in that case, there should have been a death registration for her and also a burial record.

                        Jay

                        Unless the marriage broke up and she moved elsewhere.

                        That often happened, and spouses sometimes (?often) then married bigamously, especially if the other spouse was not living in the same area. Doesn't matter what it says on the second marriage certificate, they weren't asked for proof that they were widowed or single.

                        Have you tried searching on Pam*, birth year +/-2, county of birth ..... ie no surname?????
                        My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                        Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thank you for your input, however I've tried that, Sylvia. I've also searched on year +/-5 no name but with place of birth as Halvergate, then Mundesley and Gimingham - the three villages where Pamela lived. I've done nationwide searches using just one name - Pamela, Dix, Kirk, Hubbard + variants - with a 5 year parameter. Not a sniff of anything, no GRO birth of a Dix child with mmn Kirk. That's why I think she probably died, but can't write her off unless I discover some evidence.

                          Jay
                          Janet in Yorkshire



                          Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Is that her mother being baptised on same transcription page and her aunt? or a different Elizabeth Kirk?

                            Not that it helps - just inquisitive
                            Carolyn
                            Family Tree site

                            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Jay .............

                              I thought you would have done that search, but it was just worth checking!
                              My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                              Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                It is her mother Elizabeth and also her aunt Phillis. Both the twins had been baptised as babies, but in a different parish, and so the zealous curate would not have found the record in the church register if he looked back.
                                Happened again in this family - about 15 years later Phillis's eldest daughter was also baptised for a second time! Probably to do with her going into service - her mother had died, and the girl was in the care of her mother's sisters.

                                Jay
                                Janet in Yorkshire



                                Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Thanks Sylvia. Elizabeth Kirk's extended family have been, and still are, my worst nightmare and trickiest family. I just go round and round in circles and get the most terrible headaches. They are not for the faint hearted.

                                  Jay
                                  Janet in Yorkshire



                                  Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Just a thought ...............

                                    have you searched on her initials only??

                                    Patients, even prisoners, were often shown only by initial, age sex, and sometimes birth place (possibly county only).

                                    Is it worth a search if you haven't done one?
                                    My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                                    Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Isn't it strange how some families just are so difficult. Most of mine are not too hard to sort out but just like these Kirks I have an occasional family who seem 'different'. Did they deliberately avoid being recorded or were they just disorganised by nature? I feel your frustration because with such an unusual name (for the time) Pamela should be easy to find. Wonder if she disliked her name and called herself something else?
                                      Anne

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Sorry I have drawn a blank too, even looked at the reported fathers name, which looks more like Allen or Alley than that transcribed by Norfolk FHS. It probably would be no help at all but if Pamela was only 16 when married, would she have needed to be married by licence?
                                        I am sorry I no longer have FMP, so that reduces my search abilities. My brick wall was finally broken down by a newspaper report and Old Bailey trial, so like you are doing I can only suggest you return periodically for any new transcriptions.
                                        Bubblebelle x

                                        FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

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