Samuel Taylor Pittock b 1833 Manningtree, Essex

[Sue1]

Hi Moggie,

First of all re post #39 - Clara Sophia Rayner (now re-married to Edward Lloyd Summers) widow (presumably) of Samuel Taylor Pittock. The marriage to Edward Summers took place on 7 April 1883 - it is on this marriage certificate that she describes herself as Clare Sophia Theobald (a widow of 61 Bagshot Street - probably Newington, Surrey) The marriage took place at All Saints Church, Newington, Surrey. New Groom, Edward Lloyd Summers was a resident of 59 Bagshot Street at the time of the marriage.

Mr. Theobald(s) has not so far been found to exist! Did she live with someone or did she divorce?

I haven't really looked too much at the Kersey Pittocks because most of what I have confirms that my Samuel Pittock was born in Manningtree, Essex and then he just disappears - not found yet on 1861 or 1871 census - Clara Sophia Pittock his wife had her last Pittock child in 1871 in Shifnal, Shropshire and one of the Pittock children seems to have been born in Bridgewater, ?Dorset - have not found the 1861 census either. No children found from the Summers marriage but she was a good bit older than she said she was at the time of that marriage.

Clara Sophia Rayner/Pittock/Summers was born in 1837 in Great Baddow, Essex - the child of Henry Rayner and Mary Ann Rayner (nee Rowland) of Great Baddow..
Census showing where children were born: http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/509...pl=pid%7cpgNum
Am working on trying to find the Bridgewater (or was it Bridport - it is on the census above) census and the Shifnal one BUT the events probably happened outside the census and are not recorded except on other census which says where the births took place.

Sue

[Katarzyna]

Just found Kate in 1881. Gives her birth year as 1855 & birthplace Warley. Why would she say she was older than she actually was? [/URL]

I think if you look at the image it says 20 not 26 although I can see why the transcriber thought it was 26. Also the baptism record doesn't give the age of the child. If older than a few moths the DOB is normally given.

[maudarby]

Hi Kat
Have you seen the baptism record? If so what was the father's occupation?
Moggie

[Katarzyna]

kate pittock.jpg

See post#18

[maudarby]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]17529[/ATTACH]

See post#18

Hi Kat
Thanks for that. So he wasn't a mariner in 1860. I had seen a reference to a builder up thread but hadn't made the connection. This is getting very confusing. I think Sue needs to get the 1859 marriage cert to see just which Samuel Pittock Clara married. My money's on the Samuel born c1825 Kersey.
Moggie

[Sue1]

According to the above post the cert says Samuel Taylor Pittock - certainly he is a builder and not a Sailor.
There is more than one Samuel Taylor Pittock but the other one is nothing to do with Suffolk or Essex - he married someone else (Ann Mander) in Soho which caused initial confusion. I saw something also that made me think he may have been deported for stealing bread just a year after his marriage.

I have been trying to go back further with the Pittocks and I suspect they join up in Suffolk - there is probably a connection and the borders of both counties do touch. I get the impression that the Suffolk Pittocks are much more well-heeled than the Essex Pittocks (from probate records).
I have on my Tree:
1. John Robert Nunn Pittock b 1787 Layham, Suffolk - d 1868 Manningtree, Essex - who married a Mary Lambert - one of their sons was:
2. John Nunn Pittock b c1811 Manningtree, Essex - d 11.12.1864 Manningtree, Essex - m - Anna Maria Rotte 1832 Mistley, Essex (she was born in Prussia but a british subject)
Two of his sons were:
John Nunn Pittock (Twin 1) b 28.1.1833 Manningtree, Ess - d 16.11.1912 Manningtree - m - Sarah A. Randall
Samuel Taylor Pittock (Twin 2) b " " - d Unknown - m Clara Sophia Rayner 1859 (marriage registered Chelmsford, ESS.)
1841 census showing John Nunn Pittock b 1811 (Samuel (twin 2) is staying with family on this and 1861 census when he is 18 and described as a "Sailor")

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/50938430/person/27113107658/media/2?pgnum=1&pg=0&pgpl=pid%7cpgNum

1851 census (Samuel is only twin staying with grandparents)

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/50938430/person/27113107658/media/1?pgnum=1&pg=0&pgpl=pid%7cpgNum

Samuel Taylor Pittock must have died before 1883 as this is when Clara Sophia (as Theobald) remarried to Mr. Summers as a widow (?again)

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8913/ONS_M18591NZ-0207/23694419?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dFreeBMDMarriage%26h%3d23694419%26ti%3d5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t50938430_p26000632086_kpidz0q3d26000632086z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t50938430_p26000632086_kpidz0q3d26000632086z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord

1881 Clara Sophia THEOBALD is a widow living in Chelmsford: http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/89...l=ReturnRecord
Last time there is a record of Samuel being alive was the 1851 census where he is 18 and living with his grandparents and then, of course his marriage certificate to Clara Sophia Rowland in 1859.
The last Pittock child that I have is Edith Louisa Pittock b 1871 Shifnal, Shropshire. I suppose it could be assumed but not assured, that Clara Sophia is widowed around this time, is not remarried to anyone at this time. Allowing for the fact that this is a Q1 REGISTRATION in 1871, the child could have actually been born in 1870.........Samuel (or someone) must have been around from perhaps Jan 1870 for this child to have been conceived. There are no other children other than Pittocks and I have found no marriage to the elusive Mr. Theobald - there may not have been a marriage but there must have been a birth and death for him.
Am going to concentrate today on trying to find the actual birth for Edith Louisa Pittock in Shifnal, Salop.
I notice a lot of the marriages for the family are in the East of London - wonder what the connection is - perhaps purely geographical since Essex borders E. London. Also going to look for the 1861 census for Clara Sophia - have just noticed I don't have it.

Renewed thanks for all you are doing.

Moggy - were you able to read those naval records!!?? You must have very good eyesight if you could.

[Sue1]

I have both the records for Bridport, Dorset (Ada b Bridport 1869 5a 417) and Edith Louisa Pittock (b1871 Whitchurch 6a 797 Q1)
Because they are straightforward bmd lists that these entries came from they are not further helpful as parents not named. Sue

[Katarzyna]

Hi Sue,
Will you be buying the marriage Cert? - This is so intriguing I can't wait to see what it says!

BTW your links are to your private tree so we cannot view them - meant to say before

[JudithM]

Sue, I have come late to this thread but am confused as to whether you are researching Samuel Taylor PITTOCK or the Samuel Pittock baptised in Manningtree in 1833, twin of John Nunn PITTOCK. The 1833 Manningtree Samuel definitely had the second name Paskell, not Taylor, recorded in the baptism register, as referred to by Kat in earlier posts.

[Sue1]

Hi Judith, That has thrown me a bit - I was so sure it was Taylor! I will have a further look for his death with the name Paskell - I have today been trying without the middle name with no luck.

Thanks for that. Sue

[Sue1]

I am so sorry about the links - I didn't realise you couldn't view them and I am not very good a putting them on anyway!
You will see from the post immediately below yours that his death is online apparently and his birth as Samuel Paskell Pittock ......................am just trying to find it on bmds (the death that is) but zilch yet.
I have found the Births for the two children who were born in Bridport, Dorset and Whitchurch, Shropshire - no clues at all from them.
I am afraid I can't buy certificates - I did so when I first started researching and it became very expensive and is a lot more so now.
Despondent. Sue (it might be easier I suppose if I am looking with the correct father!)

[JudithM]

I'm still unsure which line you are searching Sue. If it is definitely the family of Samuel Pittock who married Clara Rayner in 1859 then that is Samuel Taylor Pittock (probably the one born in Kersey Suffolk in 1825) and we don't need to look at the Manningtree Samuel. On the other hand if the Manningtree family is the one you are related to then the family descending from the 1859 marriage is not yours.

If Samuel married to Clara is definitely yours, do you have the 1859 marriage certificate?

[Sue1]

No - no marriage certificates (see 2 posts back for reason).
My lot are the Rayners. I wasn't really sure which Samuel was mine I suppose. I did have a Samuel Taylor Pittock in Soho marrying an Eliza Mander but not mine. Then another Samuel Taylor Pittock turned up in Essex. Keldon sent me a copy of a birth entry for a Samuel Paskell Pittock very early on but I was convinced my Samuel Taylor was right.
Well, I have learned my lesson, I am fed up, don't want to research any more, going to have a bath, going to start spring cleaning tomorrow and going to sulk BUT thank you for telling me - I appreciate it.

Sue

[maudarby]

Hi Sue
I have looked at the transcripts but they are very hard to read because the writing is out of focus.
The 1st one is for 1847. I think it says age when enlisted? 14. Can't see bottom corner because it is so dark. 2nd the typed transcript I guess is for 1853/4 & the 3rd I think is for 1851. Samuel's age is either 16 or 18 & he was an apprentice. The word blank is written in for the questions Have you ever been in the Royal Navy. Have you ever done foreign service & the last question which I can't read I think is asking "where" if they have said yes to foreign service.
Alongside this is the note Cancelled ? left on board 674 895?
Best I can do but there's definitely no personal info apart from date of birth & colour of eyes hair etc.
Moggie

[Sue1]

Thanks very much Moggie. I gather this Samuel Taylor Pittock probably/definitely not mine. I will now have to take a lot of people off the Tree but will eventually get back to searching. It has been suggested that the Kersey, Suffolk Pittock may be mine - if so the naval records probably don't apply. I haven't been able to find the death of the new Samuel Taylor Pittock but it is supposed to be online. I will try Free parish registers later and look more into the Suffolk Pittock.

Sue