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**zoomer** · 31-07-17, 21:40

More happy news! My half-cousin is now a grandmother and the baby girl would be William Fricker's first great-great grandchild. I am still waiting to learn more about my cousin's DNA information and those mysterious COOPERs while I'm saving up for my own autosomal test.

I have also found a photo in a book of Isabella NEWMAN. I doubt that I can get a good copy online, however I will try to scan it and post it. It won't be very clear but at least Ozgirl will have something. My mother published her memoirs and many family stories, many of which are not quite true, along with some photos that I had forgotten that I had.

**JJohnson** · 19-10-17, 14:20

George joined the army in 1892. He was my grandfather.

**JJohnson** · 19-10-17, 14:31

George was my grandfather. My mother was his youngest child benefit. 1926. When I have more time I will give you details of his life after leaving Netley if you would like. He joining the army in 1892 and doesn't appeareally on a census until 1911 when he lived in Wales. I have original docs ie marrange cert. Plus my mother visited her grandmother and Netley so this helped. I have a little info on James also. Neither stayed as gardeners although George retained had an interest. J

**zoomer** · 21-10-17, 16:29

Originally posted by JJohnson View Post

George joined the army in 1892. He was my grandfather.

George who? Sorry but I can't figure out how this connects to me.

**Katarzyna** · 21-10-17, 17:18

See Post #243 Amelia.
He is one of the gardener boys you were looking at.

**zoomer** · 22-10-17, 16:36

One of Isabella's brothers? Post 243 is a long way back.

**Katarzyna** · 22-10-17, 20:04

I'm sure you can find the post???
In you said Quote:

"So this pretty much sums up what I have been able to learn on my own, but I would like to fill in the blanks about the 2 brothers who worked as gardeners."

**zoomer** · 23-10-17, 20:11

Did you ever hear of George or James going to Canada in the 1900s? Isabella, their sister, arrived in Canada Oct. of 1907.

**zoomer** · 23-10-17, 20:12

Of course I can find it Kat, but I was in a hurry last time. ;-)

**JJohnson** · 23-10-17, 22:51

Hi
Re the gardener boys from Netley, brothers of Isabella nee Newman born 1873 Netley, as seen on census of 1891.
There has never been any mention of George visiting Canada. I have a copy of George's attestation papers when he joined the army in 1892. When he joined the army he fought in in Boer war and also went to India, information from family members he told this to. After he left the army he went to work as a gamekeeper in Wales. He doesn't appear on any 1901 census that I can find, but he was very likely abroad in the army at this time. He married my grandmother Annie Louisa Thomas b 1887 from a village called Stanton Lacy Shropshire. The marriage took place in 1909 in Whitland, Wales. George was a widower on the marriage certificate ( I have the original), but so far I haven't found the first wife or marriage. We know her name was Sarah ( he had a tattoo Sarah) and it wasn't a secret he had been married before and the story was she died in childbirth. She was Irish and went back to Ireland to give birth where both she and the child died. George and Annie had 3 children whilst living in Wales and 2 are on the 1911 census. By 1916 they had moved to Shropshire where they settles in Ludlow a market town. They had a further 5 children, my mother was the youngest born in 1926. George re-enlisted in the army for WW1 and was a Regimental Sargent Major in the Royal Artillary. The eldest daughter born in 1909 was called Isabella Matilda Jane and known as Dolly to the family. My mother tells me that Dolly, married name Goodwin, used to write to her aunt Isabella in Canada. However, she would never share the letters or address. We don't know why this was the case. Have you ever heard of letters/correspondance with Dolly Newman/Goodwin? Address 5 Mill Street Ludlow. . After leaving the army following the WW1 he started a painting and decorating business and his son Edmund Godfrey know as Goff followed him into the business. They lived at 4 Mill Street, Ludlow. My mother remembers going to Netley and visiting her grandmother Isabella, George's mother and meeting uncles. George died in 1960 in Ludlow.
James lived in the Netley area all his life. He married and had 5 children. There is no indication that he went to Canada at any time. James died in 1938 following an horrific accident where he worked and died in Netley Royal Victoria Hospital from burns.
There is a grandson William H Newman, aged 7 on the 1901 census, he is also on the 1911 census aged 17.

Which William is your grandfather? DOB?

JJohnson
Jane

**Katarzyna** · 24-10-17, 13:54

Originally posted by JJohnson View Post

The eldest daughter born in 1909 was called Isabella Matilda Jane and known as Dolly to the family. My mother tells me that Dolly, married name Goodwin, used to write to her aunt Isabella in Canada. However, she would never share the letters or address. We don't know why this was the case. Have you ever heard of letters/correspondance with Dolly Newman/Goodwin? Address 5 Mill Street Ludlow.

That's interesting Jane. Pity those letters were not shown to anyone in the family. They could have been quite enlightening. Perhaps they wrote about Isobel Newman's elopement with Joseph Fricker to Canada and shed a bit of light on the mystery of their "son" William Fricker b c 1897. Are you in touch with Dolly's descendents? They may have documents/ letters tucked away in a box in someone's attic - you never know

**JJohnson** · 25-10-17, 08:55

I'm Dolly's niece. After her husband died she shared a cottage with a brother who never married and he inherited documents belonging to my grandparents, that's how I have some original family documents. Dolly's papers, documents were left with my uncle in their home. When he died he left everything to my mother. I will ask my mother. It was my mother who told me about her aunt Isabella going to Canada and the letter correspondence. I will ask her again what else she knows. From past experience I have found that certain information is only divulged when it has been realized I have basically found most of the information. Will let you know if anything else tutrus up. Jane

**Katarzyna** · 25-10-17, 10:54

Fingers crossed

**zoomer** · 25-10-17, 16:29

My grandfather, William Fricker, was the adopted son of Isabella Newman Mumford Fricker. She never actually married Mr. Fricker with whom she went with to Canada in 1907 as far as I can tell. Mr. Fricker became a grocer in Mount Forest, Ontario, Canada. Isabella & Mr. Fricker had children together.

William was born, so far as I know, in April of 1898. There is no birth regisration that I have been able to find. He believed he was born Apr. 17th, however, a school record for the town next door to Netley (Mr. Mumford was working in Netley) said he was born on Apr. 21st of 1898. About 2 1/2 years after the 1904-5 school record Isabella appears aboard a ship with Mr. Fricker, while Mr. Mumfor was still living. There was no divorce. William's origins are mysterious.

Recent DNA evidence points to the family name SAUNDERS as a biological match to William. There are two possibilities, a SaUNDERS family in Sussex, and another SAUNDERS family on the Isle of Wight. Because William's earliest record is in the 1901 census as a 3 year old (actually almost 3 if he was born in April) living on Albert Street near Victoria in Cowes, IOW. Isabella & Mr. Mumford do not appear to have had family ties to the Isle of Wight so I ten to think that William's biological mother &/or father came from there or had close family there.

**zoomer** · 25-10-17, 16:52

I just read this (I'm Dolly's niece) after I posted. It would certainly be interesting if your mother could supply any clues about Isabella's adopted son, William.

I forgot to mention that in the 1901 census he is listed as a "nurse-child" but when she goes to Canada he is listed simply as her son. I do not believe she was William's biological mother although there has been some speculation about this. I know Isabella had red hair. William's biological mother was also said to have red hair, and another story passed down is that the red-haired lady was a gardener's daughter who became with child from a barrister, the son of a wealthy man (landed gentry).

William met the father of the barrister during WWI and was told that his biological father, the barrister, was deceased, as were some uncles. They died either in WWI itself or during the Boer War. When William asked if he had any other family members, the old man (father of the barister) told him, "They're all dead" but I don't know if this was true or if he simply wanted to discourage further attempts to establish contact with biological family members. This is all the information I have other than what became of William after he went to Canada. he served in both World Wars.

**zoomer** · 25-10-17, 16:56

Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post

That's interesting Jane. Pity those letters were not shown to anyone in the family. They could have been quite enlightening. Perhaps they wrote about Isobel Newman's elopement with Joseph Fricker to Canada and shed a bit of light on the mystery of their "son" William Fricker b c 1897. Are you in touch with Dolly's descendents? They may have documents/ letters tucked away in a box in someone's attic - you never know

William was most certainly born in 1898. His year of birth is listed as 1897 only when he joined the Canadian Expeditionary Force in WWI. He lied about his age as many young men did at the time.

**Katarzyna** · 25-10-17, 17:01

I was going to alter that date Amelia but was too late to alter and to be honest unless a birth cert is found it could be anywhere between 1897 and 1899.

**zoomer** · 09-10-18, 22:27

Exciting news. My half-cousin had DNA testing and I have learned that William's 1st cousin was named Telford Charles Field. The name FIELD came up previously when my uncle had a Y-test done some time ago, but a distant American cousin with this name did not know any useful info. Now I want to find out as much as possible about this FIELD family and especially names of uncles of Telford, one of which is William's father! The name COOPER, however, never came up in any DNA test results. There are many previous postings about this futile search.The mother's name may have been SAUNDERS. If she was raised as a COOPER, she was not born one. If I can find out who worked for the Field family as a gardener I may get names of William's mother's family, assuming that the story of the gardener's daughter impregnated by a barrister is true. I could also try to find a barrister named Field. Lots of new avenues to explore!

**Katarzyna** · 09-10-18, 23:28

Great news Amelia.
Do you have these yet? Quite a bit for Telford Charles on Ancestry.

Birth:
FIELD, TELFORD CHARLES mmn MAUDSLAY
GRO Reference: 1864 Jun Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 494

Baptism:
Name: Telford Charles Field
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 23 Jun 1864
Baptism Place: St Marylebone, Westminster, England
Father: Telford Field
Mother: Clara Rose Field

1871 census

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