Joseph Charles Fricker

[zoomer]

As Nellie was born Mar Q 1884, that would have made her just 14 when Frederick was born, so only 13 when pregnant - I would think it highly unlikely that she would be his mother.

Yes, I agree, it is unlikely that she would have become pregnant at 13! I thought she was perhaps a year older though that would also be unlikely. It is becuse of the 8 year age gap between Henry and Frederick that I considered this possibility.

By the way, concerning your ancestor, Isabella NEWMAN/MUMFORD/FRICKER, I do not judge her harshly for her actions in not giving accurate information to authorities on records, and (perhaps) tearing off the corner of a photo. I do not know enough about her motives to do so. I think she was probably acting in the best interests of the child to protect William and keep him with the only mother he ever knew. He did well in her care and had a good life in Canada. In order to ease my mind I even contacted police in Cowes to find out if there was any kind of report of a missing child fitting William's description and as far as they could tell, no one was missing him back then.

Happy Mother's Day to all who are mothers! This research to find my grandfather's roots has made me realize how important mothers and foster mothers really are.

[Olde Crone Holden]

I looked at the registrations of the children's births and they all had mother's maiden name Valler. That led me to the marriage of Eliza Valler to Henry Charles Cooper.

I haven't looked at the original 1901 census, so I don't know whether Eliza says she is married, widowed or single.

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

I have now looked at the family search transcription and Eliza says she is a wife, so that means her husband was not at home on census night.

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

I can see Eliza in 1911 at Lakeport and also can see Esther at Portsea. Esther marries the same year, to either Edwin Bolt or Herbert Hopkins.

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

It should say Landport!

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

Although I cannot see the full household results for 1911, there is a Frederick Cooper age 12 living at the same address as Eliza. I think that clinches it really, but perhaps someone will kindly check the full results for 1911.

OC

[ozgirl]

In 1911 Eliza is with her husband, Henry Charles Cooper. They have been married 30 years and have had 5 children of whom 4 are still living. With them on census day were daughter Esther and son Frederick, both single and married daughter Nellie Wheeler. Nellie has been married for 6 years and has had 2 children, one living. Her living child, Frederick Albert Wheeler aged 1 is also with her.

Henry Charles Cooper, aged 52, is stated to be completely blind, and has no occupation

[Katarzyna]

OC is right about the mother's maiden name
These refs are from the GRO. click on link

Name: ......................Mother's Maiden Surname:
COOPER, NELLIE ELIZA VALLER
GRO Ref: 1884 M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 441
COOPER, ESTHER MABEL VALLER
GRO Ref: 1886 M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 478
COOPER, HENRY CHARLES VALLER
GRO Ref: 1889 J Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 469
COOPER, FREDERICK ERNEST VALLER
GRO Ref: 1898 J Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 430

1911 census

Name Age
Henry Charles Cooper 52
Eliza Cooper 50
Frederick Ernest Cooper 13
Nellie Eliza Wheeler 27
Esther Mabel Cooper 23
Frederick Albert Wheeler 1 grandson
20 Clarendon Street, Landport, Portsmouth

Sorry never saw your post Linda - was busy looking it all up!

Edit:
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
10, Union Road, Northwood, Isle of Wight, Hampshire, England

Fanny Cooper Head Married Female 22 1859 Mariners Wife Freshwater, Hampshire, England

[Katarzyna]

That edit above was for different cooper - sorry - ignore!

[zoomer]

OC is right about the mother's maiden name
These refs are from the GRO. click on link

Name: ......................Mother's Maiden Surname:
COOPER, NELLIE ELIZA VALLER
GRO Ref: 1884 M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 441
COOPER, ESTHER MABEL VALLER
GRO Ref: 1886 M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 478
COOPER, HENRY CHARLES VALLER
GRO Ref: 1889 J Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 469
COOPER, FREDERICK ERNEST VALLER
GRO Ref: 1898 J Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 430

1911 census

Name Age
Henry Charles Cooper 52
Eliza Cooper 50
Frederick Ernest Cooper 13
Nellie Eliza Wheeler 27
Esther Mabel Cooper 23
Frederick Albert Wheeler 1 grandson
20 Clarendon Street, Landport, Portsmouth

Sorry never saw your post Linda - was busy looking it all up!

Edit:
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
10, Union Road, Northwood, Isle of Wight, Hampshire, England

Fanny Cooper Head Married Female 22 1859 Mariners Wife Freshwater, Hampshire, England

Don't worry about the edit error. I figured out that Fanny was a different COOPER - I recognized her as the one that lived at 2 Albert St. and I believe that my grandfather, William WATSON nurse-child of Isabella MUMFORD lived at 4 Albert. Is this correct? Not sure if the big impressive house at the corner of Albert & Victoria in Cowes (easy to find on google maps street view) is actually 2 Albert or an address on Victoria where the front door would actually be. Wish I could fly over to Cowes to take a quick look. :-)

The other COOPER famly is not my Wiliiam"s for sure. I knew it was unlikely and won't keep taking these magical mystery tours.

I seem to get incomplete information from the Mormons. I know they previously messed up the name of one of my ancestors on my father's side. An ancestor named TULLER, a Connecticut Yankee famliy (first arrival 1690ish) had his name changed to "Griller" due to misreading of the name. Also those from Prussia they transcribe as coming from "Preuben" bcause of the German letter that looks like a capitol B but is actually a double S. Preussen (proy-sen) is the German form of Prussia, now part of Germany.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Number 2 Albert Street Cowes is a modern bungalow as far as I can see.

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

Scrub that, I am looking at Cowes in Australia, hahaha!

OC

[zoomer]

Scrub that, I am looking at Cowes in Australia, hahaha!

OC

That's funny! This computer I'm on today chokes & croaks when I try to go on maps.google.com street view. It's the house on the north-west corner of Albert & Victoria. Obviously the main entrance is on Victoria, but it could have had a servant's entrance on Albert St. where the Coopers lived. Or 2 Albert could have been a house no longer there in the green space behind the house. They don't really let you see the addresses and the ones they guess at are not accurate.

Queen Victoria visited Cowes during Cowes Regatta week in late July of 1897, the Diamond Jubilee year. I figure my grandfather was conceived during that time (born mid-April 1898). If the conception took place on the IoW (where William first appears in any record) then there were increased opportunities for such a thing to take place. The father could have been visiting from anywhere to see the yachts and taken advantage of an unmarried and unchaperoned lady doing the same.

There was a big yacht race between the Kaiser, Wilhelm sailing his yacht, the Meteor II built by a guy named G.L. Watson against the Britannia sailed by his cousin, the Prince of Wales, later Edward VII. He lost the race and temporarily his yacht was owned by a Cooper. An interesting coincidence. Both names show up often connected with yachting.

[zoomer]

Although I cannot see the full household results for 1911, there is a Frederick Cooper age 12 living at the same address as Eliza. I think that clinches it really, but perhaps someone will kindly check the full results for 1911.

OC

Thanks for all the checking. I think I have learned enough about this particular Cooper family. It seems that they did okay by 1911. I think I will check Isabella's brothers who worked as gardeners as as one of them could have known of "a gardener's daughter impregnated by a barrister of the landed gentry" as the family story goes. If a brother knew of a baby in need of care it makes sense that he would think first of his sister who had lost a baby. If the names COOPER, WATSON & NEWMAN show up together (or 2 out of 3) as employees for a wealthy family that could lead to something more likely to be connected with William. But first I have to find out the names of Isabella NEWMAN's brothers and their DOBs. Not sure if it is on another post in this thread. This is the last sensible thing I can think of doing before an autosomal DNA test. I am waiting for one of my cousins to have it done first.

[zoomer]

Number 2 Albert Street Cowes is a modern bungalow as far as I can see.

OC

In Australia, yes.

I took a closer look at the photo of where 2 Albert St., Cowes, UK stood on google maps. You can see the number 6 clearly on a white door, then next door (going east) must be number 4 be hiding behind the lovely pink flowers. You can also see where the roof of number 2 has left traces (where Mrs. Cooper the mariner's wife lived) and what remains of the eastern wall which has been creatively adapted to become a fence. This property must have been destroyed by fire or some other calamity. The big house on the corner has to have it's address on Victoria Street and never had an Albert St. address attached to it or built behind it. I wonder if Isabella MUMFORD (as she was calling herself then) may have worked there and if it was built by shipbuilders as this is how the story goes in William's wife's memoirs. She said they were named Cooper but I think her mind was not clear when she wrote it all down. It's a lovely gingerbread Victorian home recently renovated. Would love to know who lived there in 1901. It's 7 Victoria Rd. as far as I can tell.

At least this is one small mystery solved.

I am trying to find out everything I can about Isabella's brothers before posting anything major. her oldest brother was William named after her father William. I strongly suspect, but can not prove, that William was not originally my grandfather's first name. This leaves me no answers unless DNA gives me and my new half cousins (discovered via 23 & Me) some answers. William fathered a daughter born in 1924. He married in the 1930's.

[Katarzyna]

Unfortunately the majority of the premises on Victoria Road are unnumbered. The rest are groups of cottages this:
1, (Stratton Cottage) Victoria Road Cowes
2, (Cornish Cottages) Victoria Road Cowes
2, (Madeira Vale) Victoria Road Cowes
2, (Stratton Cottage) Victoria Road Cowes
3, (Cornish Cottages) Victoria Road Cowes
3, (Madeira Vale) Victoria Road Cowes

There is no number 7, cottages either.

[zoomer]

Unfortunately the majority of the premises on Victoria Road are unnumbered. The rest are groups of cottages this:
1, (Stratton Cottage) Victoria Road Cowes
2, (Cornish Cottages) Victoria Road Cowes
2, (Madeira Vale) Victoria Road Cowes
2, (Stratton Cottage) Victoria Road Cowes
3, (Cornish Cottages) Victoria Road Cowes
3, (Madeira Vale) Victoria Road Cowes

There is no number 7, cottages either.

They are numbered today as can be clearly seen:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@50.760009,-1.3029681,3a,75y,217.19h,95.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svveS1kp9HVMy4QPiLWfVzQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Sorry, I don't seem able to be able make this link functional. But if you go to maps.google.ca (or for you uk) then just enter 6 Victoria Rd. Cowes, UK and go to street view. You should see a house with the number 5 clearly on the door and a house under renovation next to it (corner of Albert St.) which should be 7 Victoria Rd. Another time I saw the house without all the scaffolding. If you don't see it straight away then circle around until you do.

Maybe in early 1900s they did not use addresses there which seems odd as they were clearly in use around the corner on Albert St.

Sorry to hear of the horrific attack in Manchester. One of my adult children has a close friend living there. They visited each other's cities a few years back.

[Katarzyna]

Yes they are numbered today and seen them on Google or Bing maps BUT in 1891 - 1911 they were not always numbered - we are quaint like that over here !! Victoria Road housing consisted of rows of cottages and terrace houses. Mainly the cottages had names something like 1,2,3,& 4 |Marigold cottages then a row of terrace houses some named like "St Helier" or "Solent Villas" and a lot with no identification at all. Remember in those days the postal service was not like it is today - most people probably never received a letter at all - we didn't have postal codes or Zip codes as you call them. Another reason there are no numbers given on a particular census could be that the enumerator never bothered to enter the number even if there was one.

[Katarzyna]

After all that there is a no 7 Victoria Road!!! On 1911 census Mary Lucas, married, husband not at home but her occupation is a Laundress with no employees ie own account. Just this end is numbered on 1911 census the rest are names or nothing as i said before. Perseverance pays off! However, the Lucases were living Market Hill on 1901 husband Thomas a gardener. So with no numbers on 1901 or 1891 censuses we are still none the wiser finding who lived at no 7 :(

[Olde Crone Holden]

Normally in the UK, houses are not numbered consecutively, so odd numbers one side of the street, evens the other. So number 7 would be between 5 and 9.

OC