Freemans, Levines of ireland? "Desperately Seeking Shulla" and her origins

[lillebetta]

Would not surprise me if Shulla was known as Sarah/Sheila, all three names sound the same.


Wal'


PS Betta, I'm pinching the list of names to c+p onto my thread, I have a few certs with some of these names on, so I'll see if any match.

I thought you might be able to use the names. Pinch away!

[naomiatt]

Feast of Tabernacles is Sukkot...bit like harvest festival. A sukkah is built and is decorated with palms etc. This could explain about the flowers..http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religi...sukkot_1.shtml

Some options for 'Shulla':
Legal/Hebrew: Shulamis / Shlomis Gender: F Legal Origin: Song of Songs 7:1/Levit
Yiddish: Shulamis / Shulamit / Sulamit
Yiddish Nickname: Shule / Shulke / Shulye / Sule / Suleye / Sulke
US Name: Celia / Sophie / Shulamith

[lillebetta]

Feast of Tabernacles is Sukkot...bit like harvest festival. A sukkah is built and is decorated with palms etc. This could explain about the flowers..http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religi...sukkot_1.shtml

Some options for 'Shulla':
Legal/Hebrew: Shulamis / Shlomis Gender: F Legal Origin: Song of Songs 7:1/Levit
Yiddish: Shulamis / Shulamit / Sulamit
Yiddish Nickname: Shule / Shulke / Shulye / Sule / Suleye / Sulke
US Name: Celia / Sophie / Shulamith

Thanks. That makes sense.

I think I've found Jack and Harry on a passenger list to Canada. My mind is reeling.

There is a Harry Louis Levine departing Londonderry 23 Feb. 1906 to Halifax. DOB 1887. "Foreign"
Everyone else is Irish. There a couple of families, several domestics and the rest are "farmers", including Harry.

Is it possible that these young men were meant to work as farmers?

On the summary page it lists Mr. F. W. Clark occupation "Yent" ? Agent? number of tickets "Saloon"

I trust the rest were steerage? There were 84 other passengers, provisions for 1300 adults for 24 days.

What could this mean?

There is a Jacob on a list to Quebec the following year. My Jack would have been 13. Possible.

[naomiatt]

Sounds like you're men...their occupations could already have been farmers...is Jacob alone?

[lillebetta]

Sounds like you're men...their occupations could already have been farmers...is Jacob alone?

I am rethinking this whole thing. Harry could be right, but Jacob was on the 1911 census. Of course that doesn't mean he was really there. Both men were travelling alone. I had been told that they left together but the age difference might mitigate that. They were both quite decently educated. The rugby photo attests to that. It seemed to me that since all the passengers were farmers it would make sense to go along with the crowd, as it were.

Myer was a draper and had some status according to the Belfast newsletter article. I think he was quite comfortable. They were urban people. Back to square one?

[lillebetta]

Found this but, it's the only Musaphia/Levine connection i can find up until now......

Father: Musaphia, Bernard "Joseph"
Mother: Levine, Ada "Israel"

Here's the link...its just below half way down the page.

http://tzorafolk.com/genealogy/html/dat18.htm

That just baffles me.

[lillebetta]

I am rethinking this whole thing. Harry could be right, but Jacob was on the 1911 census. Of course that doesn't mean he was really there. Both men were travelling alone. I had been told that they left together but the age difference might mitigate that. They were both quite decently educated. The rugby photo attests to that. It seemed to me that since all the passengers were farmers it would make sense to go along with the crowd, as it were.

Myer was a draper and had some status according to the Belfast newsletter article. I think he was quite comfortable. They were urban people. Back to square one?

I've got Jack in Canada and NY. Still no clue when he left Belfast and arrived Canada.

Two adresses in Canada, but he was resident in NY in 1920 as per statement that he immigrated in 1920 on 1930 census.

1922: 2160 Park Ave Montreal (from Leah's travel doc. stating purpose as visit to brother Jack)

1924: 136 2^nd Street W. Cornwall, Ontario, Canada (from Leah's travel doc. stating purpose as visit to brother Jack)

I would like to know who lived at these addresses. I hope it was Harry. How do I search that?

[naomiatt]

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/022/index-e.html

Maybe they left via an English port? Also, a lot came in to Canada from the US.

http://www.multiculturalcanada.ca/contentdm_browse Look in here as well.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Just an observation - I have never thought of Jews being farmers, it seems a most unlikely occupation considering that for most of their history they have been forbidden to own land.

OC

[lillebetta]

Just an observation - I have never thought of Jews being farmers, it seems a most unlikely occupation considering that for most of their history they have been forbidden to own land.

OC

It doesn't seem to fit. Harry is just disappeared, at least in any form I can make any connection to.

It was suggested that he may have been gay, based on a photo. He may have been ousted from the family or just disappearred himself. I don't have much hope of finding him. Perhaps on school records from his youth, but that may be all.

[lillebetta]

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/022/index-e.html

Maybe they left via an English port? Also, a lot came in to Canada from the US.

http://www.multiculturalcanada.ca/contentdm_browse Look in here as well.

The first site gave me nothing. Perhaps I'm too specific, impatient.

Thanks Naomi. I just did a search for names and addresses on the second site. Got one newspaper article in Polish? Indecipherable to me. Levine was the search word. Very generic.

I'm quite sure they left from England/Ireland. Just haven't found anything. Possible border crossings US/Canada but not enough info. on those records to verify.

[naomiatt]

"There is a Harry Louis Levine departing Londonderry 23 Feb. 1906 to Halifax. DOB 1887. "Foreign"" - does the document show more than that? Have you got naturalisation info for any of them? Any idea when you expect to receive those certs you've applied for? Any luck with Shulla as Shullamit, Shulamit, Celia, Sophie etc. OC, yes, can have Jewish farmers, not necc owning the land but working on it. I didn't realize that Lillebetta had occupations for them. Also, maybe there was a rush to farm in the US or Canada and maybe that was a good way to get over there?

[lillebetta]

"There is a Harry Louis Levine departing Londonderry 23 Feb. 1906 to Halifax. DOB 1887. "Foreign"" - does the document show more than that? Have you got naturalisation info for any of them? Any idea when you expect to receive those certs you've applied for? Any luck with Shulla as Shullamit, Shulamit, Celia, Sophie etc. OC, yes, can have Jewish farmers, not necc owning the land but working on it. I didn't realize that Lillebetta had occupations for them. Also, maybe there was a rush to farm in the US or Canada and maybe that was a good way to get over there?

Yes! Thanks. That's the one that set me thinking that it might be him/Harry. I haven't had the patience yet to search the name variations for Shulla. The certs will take a while. I guess I'm in a holding pattern. I'm totally intrigued with the Sephardic angle. haven't gotten any response to the email I sent re that.

Finding Harry and Jack are lateral searches that might flesh out the story. From 1922 forward I'm in pretty good shape. It's the
working backwards and laterally in the window between 1860 and 1920 that's the mystery.

[lillebetta]

Now I understand why one has to collect so many certs, I think!

Leah Levine married Robert Thompson. There are thousands of them. I have found a census record which I am quite confident is his family in 1911. The sibling names match what I have been told. Mother Rebecca is Widowed. I have found Belfast birth records on family search.org which are probably the children, Norah (transcribed as Sarah), Kathleen, Robert and Charles. If I order all these records, the father's name should appear, be consistent and solve that mystery?

Have I got it right?

When I get the father's name maybe I can get marriage record and their parents names?

[Wallaby]

"There is a Harry Louis Levine departing Londonderry 23 Feb. 1906 to Halifax. DOB 1887. "Foreign"" - does the document show more than that? Have you got naturalisation info for any of them? Any idea when you expect to receive those certs you've applied for? Any luck with Shulla as Shullamit, Shulamit, Celia, Sophie etc. OC, yes, can have Jewish farmers, not necc owning the land but working on it. I didn't realize that Lillebetta had occupations for them. Also, maybe there was a rush to farm in the US or Canada and maybe that was a good way to get over there?

I read something yolks ago about recruitment of people to farm in Canada, so maybe a way of getting into Canada at the time, free passage too.

Wal'

[Wallaby]

Now I understand why one has to collect so many certs, I think!

Leah Levine married Robert Thompson. There are thousands of them. I have found a census record which I am quite confident is his family in 1911. The sibling names match what I have been told. Mother Rebecca is Widowed. I have found Belfast birth records on family search.org which are probably the children, Norah (transcribed as Sarah), Kathleen, Robert and Charles. If I order all these records, the father's name should appear, be consistent and solve that mystery?

Have I got it right?

When I get the father's name maybe I can get marriage record and their parents names?

Yes, cert are important. I have certs for all my Freeman family, as there are far too many coincidences. When I met one of my first cousins, my father's niece, who is 83 & as bright as a button, she had been researching the family for three years. It turned out that she had spent three years following the wrong family. So certs are important.


Wal'

[Wallaby]

Now, I don't want to build you hopes up, but I joined a website called Jewish Belfast a few weeks ago & posted a message for my Freemans who married or had connections with Belfast thru the Russell & Harris names.

I also posted another message recently about your David Myer & Shulla Levine & today I've actually spoken on the phone to another member of Jewish Belfast who lives in Manchester & she has given me some details of a living relative of hers, thru marriage, who has this (L) name & was originally from Belfast. So I've asked her to forward an email onto him.

I don't know where he lives now, & he might not be the same Levine family, but it is highly likely that he is, given the size of the Jewish community in Belfast.


So fingers X


Wal'

[lillebetta]

I read something yolks ago about recruitment of people to farm in Canada, so maybe a way of getting into Canada at the time, free passage too.

Wal'

My grandmother and her second husband (father's side) went to Canada in the 1930's to farm as part of a Canadian govt. program to grow wheat!

[lillebetta]

Yes, cert are important. I have certs for all my Freeman family, as there are far too many coincidences. When I met one of my first cousins, my father's niece, who is 83 & as bright as a button, she had been researching the family for three years. It turned out that she had spent three years following the wrong family. So certs are important.


Wal'

I could do that and I'm not 83! I so want something to be "Real". lol

[lillebetta]

Now, I don't want to build you hopes up, but I joined a website called Jewish Belfast a few weeks ago & posted a message for my Freemans who married or had connections with Belfast thru the Russell & Harris names.

I also posted another message recently about your David Myer & Shulla Levine & today I've actually spoken on the phone to another member of Jewish Belfast who lives in Manchester & she has given me some details of a living relative of hers, thru marriage, who has this (L) name & was originally from Belfast. So I've asked her to forward an email onto him.

I don't know where he lives now, & he might not be the same Levine family, but it is highly likely that he is, given the size of the Jewish community in Belfast.


So fingers X


Wal'

I think these people are relatives or at least friends. There was a Maurice in NY who knew Jack and a mention of a cousin Sammy.
I have found no trace of them in New York thoug,. only a newspaper article that refers to the names Jack and Maurice Levine and a meeting of Irish Jews!

Harry is the same age as my Harry?

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Court_Ward/Carlisle_Street/963974/