The Winner of WDWTYA? 1st May 2008 is........

[KiteRunner]

I am trying to find the record of their passage over here, both Henry's original trip, and the one after they were married. It would seem logical that they would have sailed from Hamburg as that is very close to Mecklenburg, and would probably have arrived in Hull. I do know that many of the German records were destroyed by fire, so this is probably a fruitless request to be honest. Incidentally, Henry had a brother, Bernard, who would have come over at the same time.

I don't know for sure, Sally, but I doubt that there would be any passenger records for a short trip like that, only for long voyages, e.g. to America or Australia etc.

[KiteRunner]

1861 census Norwich - Heigham - Chapel Field Rd
Mark Sewell Head Mar 42 Shoe Manufacturer Norfolk Norwich
Clara Do Wife Mar 48 Do Do Wife Do Do
John Sutton Nephew 11 Scholar Suffolk Not Known
(and a servant)

[KiteRunner]

I'm sure you already have this, but it looks as though Mark and Clara's marriage was Dec 1847 Norwich Mark Sewell / Clara Maria Waller, and Mark died Mar 1885 Norwich age 65. Clara died Sep 1900 Norwich age 87 (no middle name on her death reg).

1871 census Norwich - Fishgate St
Mark Sewell Head M 52 Shoemaker Norwich
Clara Do Wife Mar 57 do
Honor Rix Boarder W 72 Suffolk Redgrave
Elizabeth Ellis Visitor Unm 19 Dressmaker Norfolk Sparham

1881 Norwich Fishgate St
Mark Sewell Head Mar 63 Shoe Maker Norfolk Hingham
Eliza Do Wife Mar 66 Sewing Woman Do St James(?)

I have to go out but I will call in at the archives and see if Mark or Clara left a will.

[KiteRunner]

No wills.

I just had an idea, but then I had to go and get my daughter from school - have you got Mark and Clara's marriage certificate? Could be a clue on there, if not?

[sally]

Hello, just arrived on the thread, and thank you Merry and Kiterunner.

Yes, I do have the marriage cert, but it yielded nothing that was not already known:

They were married 11th October 1847 in the Baptist Chapel, St. Clement, Norwich. Witnesses were Charles Sewell (Mark's brother) and Harriet Waller, Clara's sister. Mark's father was Mark Sewell, a Cordwainer (so no link here that I can see to John Sewell the suicide.) Clara's father was James Waller, a Warper, but I don't have them in 1841.

There is one thing about this family, and that is none of them ever seemed to stray very far from a small area of Norwich -
East Wymer
West wymer
St. Clement

At the time of John George's marriage to Mary Ann Hall in 1878, he was living in Fishgate Street, St. Edmund, and she was in St. Clement. He clearly states his father as being John Sewell (deceased), occupation Tailor. If this is truly the case, and John the suicide had a bit of naughty between marriages then his birth mother may never come to light, but if this is so then why did he change his name (presumably either for his marriage, or a few years before) . Also, in that case, who is the mysterious John Sutton with Aunt Clara.

[sally]

That was scarey - just got locked out for a while!

It just shows how the obvious can go completely unnoticed, and also what a thread such as this can do to help - I was re-reading Kiterunner's posts and having just written "Fishgate Street" as the address from which John George was married, the name jumped off the page at me! Clara and Mark were living in Fishgate Street at the time of his marriage.

So, it does seem that his association with Mark and Clara does indeed go back some time.

Well - will have to turn off now, but will be back tomorrow. As it's a bank holiday weekend then the site may be quite quiet.

[KiteRunner]

I'm wondering whether John George could be one of those people who took the surname of the people who brought him up and then when he got married, ended up with the first name (and occupation) of his real father stuck onto his adopted surname. In other words, I'm wondering whether perhaps a sister of either Mark or Clara married a Sutton, and then had a child whose father was John something, a tailor (perhaps even John Sutton?) and it is just a coincidence that there was a tailor called John Sewell. Are all Mark and Clara's sisters accounted for?

[sally]

That seems a definite possibility Kiterunner!
As to sisters of Mark and Clara, - Mark had just the one sister, Hannah and in 1851 she was still living with her parents and there was no baby with them.
I think that Clara had a sister called Harriet (the witness on the marriage cert) although she could have been a cousin. I don't know because I haven't found Clara's family yet; there are several possibilities in IGI. I may have missed something obvious because I've been going round in circles with John George for so long

[sally]

Following on from Kite's discovery of Mark in 1881, married to a new woman, Eliza (or so they said! As yet I have found no record of their marriage), I have tried without success to find Clara in 1881, but she is of course living with John George in 1891, saying that she is a widow. There is a possible death for Mark in 1885, but this is irrelevant for the present.
If anyone could find Clara in either 1851 or 1881 that would be wonderful.

[KiteRunner]

Sally, I think "Eliza" is Clara but her name has been written down wrong by the enumerator - probably he misread a badly written "Clara" on the householder's form as "Eliza". It's easy to imagine, isn't it?

[sally]

Thank you Kite - and I have to admit that after turning off last night I realised that it must be one and the same person. It's no flipping wonder that I can't find people half the time!
I'm losing hope here - there are going to be no wonderful breakthroughs with this one are there!! Never mind, it was worth a try and thank you for your help Kite

[rchollet]

John SUTTON 1850:
There is a John SUTTON born 1850 in Suffolk (sic) and living in Norfolk with parents James and Mary and with brother Philip 1849 on the 1851 Census.
In 1861, the father James SUTTON, widowed, lives in Suffolk with only son Philip.
Maybe for that reason his second son was sent to an uncle/aunt.
Father James is still in Suffolk in 1871, 1881 and 1891, with new wife Sarah (no children).