Clara's death - help UPDATE #626

[darannon]

Hi steven, I would guess that 1 Bexley Lane Dartford was actually the address of a hospital or nursing home and that is why it appears on 2 seperate certificates.

Really hope you find her soon!

Denise

[stevie2006]

Although I know I ordered the Essex one I will niggle me if I don't reorder so I have just ordered that and also the Clara Rolfe one - after that no more or my wife might kill me!!!!!!

I did say that was my last ever certificate for Clara but under my breath mouthed "for 2011" lol

Steven

[margaretmarch]

Although I know I ordered the Essex one I will niggle me if I don't reorder so I have just ordered that and also the Clara Rolfe one - after that no more or my wife might kill me!!!!!!

I did say that was my last ever certificate for Clara but under my breath mouthed "for 2011" lol

Steven

Oh Steve! I'm sure she won't and if she looks as if she's about to do it remind her that this hobby is cheaper than golf!!

Margaret

[stevie2006]

Just got an email from Amanda today and she received an old address book from a relative who recently passed away and although no clues for Clara it did I think give the two married names of two of Clara's other daughters that I didn't know.

1. Hilda who I think was born around 1905 - the surname is given in the book as Hale

2. Rose who I think was born around 1897 - the surname is given in the book as Smart

3. Dolly who I now know was Grace and was born around 1901 - I know she married a Phillips

4. Mrs Evans (Mabs) - this is an intriguing one - I thought there was a Mabel who died young so it can't be her and not sure who she is

A really good find from Amanda and I am away to look up some marriages and potential deaths to see the areas they lived in - perhsps Clara was visiting another daughter (not Ethel or Isabel) when she died and maybe worth a shout

Steven

[Darksecretz]

I think we really need to look and see if we can find these marriages.

I have spotted this though, which struck me as very odd.

Marriages Sep Q 1935
Ward Clara>>>> Smart>>> Northampton 3b/233

[stevie2006]

Hi Julie that does look odd and a bit of a coincidence. That would make Clara about 66 years old unless it was a child of one of the sisters.

Absolutely no luck finding a marriage for Rose or hilda maybe they aren't sisters of Isabel and Ethel. I thought that would be 2 easy finds of ancestry but not a thing - maybe too good to be true and a bit of wishful thinking. Spent about two ours looking last night and car up with nothing

Steven

[Darksecretz]

I know what you mean, but it could account for Clara NOT being found under Ward, ..

do we have any extra info about these 'married' names?

or are they just address's found in a book and you have added 2+2?

is there any way that Amanda can scan them? or photograph them? maybe do an address search?

do you have DOBs/certs for any of the daughters?

[maudarby]

Hi Steven
How about this scenario.
Hilda M Ward married Maurice Fitzgerald 1923 Mile End Old Town
2 daughters born Lambeth B.H in 1924 I think she has since died but won't put her full name in case I am wrong. G.M in 1927 I think she may have died as a baby.
Too many Maurice Fitzgeralds to pinpoint his death.
Hilda M Fitzgerald married Henry Hale 1956 West Ham.
Hilda Margery Hale ( born 25th May 1904) died Dec 1988 Newham. I think Newham previously covered the areas of East & West Ham.
Not having much luck with Rose, the problem being she was registered with the middle name Agnes but on the Children's Society records it gives both Agnes & Mary as her middle name. She too could have been married twice or even three times.
Moggie

[Chrissie Smiff]

I don't want to put a dampner on this but there is a possible death in Northampton for Clara Smart in Northampton in 1972 and a birth for Clara Ward that fits with the birth date given of 20th Sepember1906. There are also possible deaths in Northampton for Frederick C but I haven't pinpointed his birth exactly yet.

[Chrissie Smiff]

That looks good for Hilda Moggie

[Darksecretz]

oh well done Moggie!

that does look very likely doesnt it... though I do suppose that the certs need to be ordered in order to confirm/deny the theory, (Marriage? which may possibly give Clara as a witness?)

[Darksecretz]

I don't want to put a dampner on this but there is a possible death in Northampton for Clara Smart in Northampton in 1972 and a birth for Clara Ward that fits with the birth date given of 20th Sepember1906. There are also possible deaths in Northampton for Frederick C but I haven't pinpointed his birth exactly yet.

nope, no damper at all Chrissie, just good to have many folks cross checking the info and seeing likely connections etc.

[Darksecretz]

if that Hilda Margery is right then this is possibly the right birth, though no baptism is showing

Name: Hilda Margery Ward
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1904
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex, Greater London
Volume: 4a
Page: 40

[stevie2006]

Thanks Moggie that looks spot on and the reason I couldn't see a Ward - Hale marriage thanks a lot for that!

Thanks for finding the birth Julie and also thanks Chrissie for potentially eliminating another Clara. Amanda cme back and said her grandfather definitely died in Southend on Sea in 1976 so I got that right and my dad did say today that the family used to holiday in Clacton and Southend so you never know........

What worries me is that Clara although maybe didn't marry she did maybe live with someone and assumed their name if thats the case I fear I might never find her.

Amanda is going to have a good look through the address book in the new year and get any other information to me

Thanks for all your help yet again

Steven

[Darksecretz]

Steven,

I had been looking to see if we had the Dobs of all the children, if we can collate them in one place it might be easier to look for the marriages etc.. what do you think?

[stevie2006]

Sounds like a plan Julie I will look out what I have so far

Steven

[Darksecretz]

ok here is what I have found so far..

Elizabeth Ethel Ward Jan Q 1894 W/Ham 4a-8 she marries SMITH then lives with McKANNA

Mabel Ward c1895

Isabel Ward Dec 1894 (regd March Q 1895 W/Ham 4a-222) marries Solomon SMITH then Eric ROLFE in 1947

Charles Ward 1896

Rose Agnes Ward Oct Q 1897 W/Ham 4a-203

Grace Mary Ward abt 1901/02 marries DAVID PHILLIPS Dec Q 1926. Hackney 1b-906 (Can't find a Grace Mary birth though I have found a GRACE WARD Dec q 1901 W/Ham 4a-40)

Hilda Margery Ward Sept Q 1904 W/Ham 4a- 40 marries FITZGERALD then HALE

[stevie2006]

1. Elizabeth Ethel Ward born 13th November 1893 in West Ham

2. Isabel Ward born 27th December 1894 in West Ham

These are the only 2 cert's i have but Julie is right with the others

Steven

[Darksecretz]

1. Elizabeth Ethel Ward born 13th November 1893 in West Ham

2. Isabel Ward born 27th December 1894 in West Ham

These are the only 2 cert's i have but Julie is right with the others

Steven

ok, can we fill in the gaps for the list I have put up... what about Isabel & Rose then, who did they marry?

[stevie2006]

Isabel was my great grandmother- she married Solomon Smith and when he died in 1946 she then married his friend Eric Rolfe in 1947. She died in Ilford in 1984

Haven't a clue about Rose or Charley unfortunately

Grace (aka) Dolly married David Phillips

Steven