Clara's death - help UPDATE #626

[Guest]

Steve that Clara in Southend has the middle initial E ?

[Darksecretz]

do you have the relevant certs for that Steven? the death and marriage?? if so who registered that death and who were the witness' to her 2nd marriage?

[stevie2006]

Thanks val that would seem to rule out the Southend one maybe might take a punt on the Brentford one

Julie on Solomon's death cert the informant is my grandad Robert Smith. On the marriage in 1947 of Isabel to Eric Rolfe the witnesses are J Richards (Rickards), E McKanna (Ethel) and either an E or C Pond

My dad was born in 1947 and visited the family when a young boy and cannot recall a Clara so the timescales of 1939 - 1949 would seem to fit

Thanks for all the help

Steven

[stevie2006]

PS how accurate is the year of birth on the death indexes ? Is it just a guess from the informant or is it checked and verified? Just wanted to clarify that.

Who do you phone to try to get someone to give you he informant's name prior to ordering a certificate?

Thanks

Steven

[Darksecretz]

On the marriage in 1947 of Isabel to Eric Rolfe the witnesses are J Richards (Rickards), E McKanna (Ethel) and either an E or C Pond

do you know who J Richards/E or C Pond is have you tracked these people?

not sure about which local office would fall under for Brentford, not unless its Brent? have a look here. http://www.familytreeforum.com/conte...-and-Middlesex you need to scroll down to register office,

looking at freebmd the registers seem now to be split between 3 places, http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/d...brentford.html

Registers now held by : Hounslow, Ealing and Richmond upon Thames.


re the informants information/death age, it was only as good as the person giving the information

[Chrissie Smiff]

I'm wondering Steven if the timescale you are thinking that she died in could probably be extended a little. When I was looking for the death of my husbands grandfather my hubby insisted that he could hardly remember seeing him. He thought he may have seen him once when he was very small. I finally found his death when hubby was 11 years old. We stayed children for longer in those days.
You say your father was born in 1947, so I wouldn't discount anything up to at least 1952, even longer if all else fails. We don't always remember things from when we are 5 years old, especially in those days. Remember too that things were kept from children more years ago. If she had been ill, possibly even a form of dementia or something, she may have been in her room, hospital etc. Also of course she may have been visiting other children when he was taken to visit.

[kylejustin]

i guess it's also possible her death may not have made it to the GRO. my 4th great grandfather died in 1930, and i have his details from the headstone, but there is no certificate.

[maudarby]

PS how accurate is the year of birth on the death indexes ? Is it just a guess from the informant or is it checked and verified? Just wanted to clarify that.

Hi Steven
How accurate the age given at death depends on whether the person registering the death knew how old the person was & I don't think this is ever checked.
My grandmother Clara born 1869 who I mentioned earlier on here died in 1948 at Leyton age given as 69, registered by her son. Likewise her husband Thomas, my grandfather born 1865 died 1930 age given as 54, registered by his youngest son. What I can't understand is why both sons didn't know the ages of their parents. 10 years discrepancy is an awful lot. I would have thought that somewhere in my grandparent's house there would have been a tin box or similar where all certs, insurance policies etc were kept.
Moggie

[herky]

i guess it's also possible her death may not have made it to the GRO. my 4th great grandfather died in 1930, and i have his details from the headstone, but there is no certificate.

I have the same - my gg grandparents marriage isn't in the GRO indexes but I found it at the local register office in Aberystwyth.

Just a thought - the timescale coincides with the war years, in part, is it possible that some records could have been lost due to war activity etc?? Perhaps at the local register office but not getting to GRO, lost on the way!

[stevie2006]

Hi Julie haven't a clue who these two witnesses are but I did check for a Clara Pond just in case but no luck.

Hi Chrissie I think you make a good point I don't think I need to go earlier but maybe extend into 1950's

Thanks Kyle I am beginning to think there may be no death registered

Moggie thanks for clarifying the year of birth which means whoever registered the death could easily have made a mistake

Steven

Sorry herky I was posting the same time as you I know I had wondered if some records were affected during the way

[Darksecretz]

Hi Chrissie I think you make a good point I don't think I need to go earlier but maybe extend into 1950's

I have checked thru to 1960 and there isnt anything likely,

[darannon]

I have been trying to find any likely lead on clara, but no luck so far )-:
Here are a few of my own stories, which may/may not help

I had an ancestor who was 'lost' and it turned out she had remarried when she was nearly 70 years old, using her maiden name (this was over 30 years after she was widowed)

Could the name be mistranscribed on the record? One of my Vango family are in the GRO index as Lang in 1918 - quite a difference. I'm thinking maybe Wand?

Don't tie the year down too much - my dad said he didn't remember his uncle at all, but it turns out he was 6 years old when he died

You can be sure of one thing - Clara has definitely died, and you will find the record eventually (-:

Good luck
Denise

[stevie2006]

Thanks Julie and thanks Denise for looking againg and for the advice. I might just go for the Brentford death as a wee guess and will have a look through Ancestry for some possible variations of Ward and also check again for Rolfe deaths and Pettit deaths (Clara's maiden name)

Steven

[stevie2006]

1 Clara Wand in Leicester which I can't see a link

5 Clara Pettit's of which only 1 looks a possibility - 1951 in Essex South Western but had a middle initial E

7 Clara Rolfe's of which onoy 1 has no middle initial but that one is in 1938 in Romford which looks too early. There are 2 Clara L Rolfe's one of which looks too early in 1935 and the other is in Maidenhead Berkshire in 1953 but is that not too far away - approx 67 miles from Ilford.

Thats leaves Clara Ward of which the only remaining one is Brentford - is it worth a gamble

Steven

[darannon]

Hi again - I actually live in Brentford, and over the years it's boundaries have changed quite often. Sometimes it has been brentford & ealing, sometimes brentford & chiswick. Going further back Brentford events were registered under twickenham, which in turn was under richmond. Nowadays it is in the London Borough of Hounslow. My family are not from this area so I have never done any research around here to know what's kept where. There is a main Hounslow library, and another large one in Ealing (which is much nearer to brentford than hounslow town centre is). If you get a good lead in Brentford and I can help please let me know

Denise

[stevie2006]

Just got an update from Amanda after she spoke to her dad. She said her father confirmed that "Clara definately died while they were living in Thornton Road, Ilford. I also asked him about other addresses he may have lived at. He said the family moved house alot. He was evacuated away to many different homes from the age of 7 to around 13 and often came back to a new house. After living in Thornton Rd, he remembers moving to a Hamilton Rd or St but Clara had died by then. He also said that Isabella lived in Thornton Rd about one or two doors along from them"

He certainly seems sure that she died in Ilford Essex so why can't I find the death - so frustrating but I expect the same has happened to many of you

Not sure where to go to next

Steven

[margaretmarch]

I think the only thing that could be done that hasn't been already is for someone to go to the local Register Office and see the index of deaths in case it is one of those that never made it to GRO.
Perhaps worth asking on the Research requests Board if anyone lives in the Ilford area and would be willing to go for you.

You might ask the Register Office first if they would allow such a visit and check of their index.

Margaret

[stevie2006]

Thanks for the offer Denise

Thanks Margaret I will see what I can find out

Steven

PS Margaret thats a begging email away to the register office to see if they can help

[margaretmarch]

Good luck with the begging email!
margaret

[stevie2006]

Heard back from Redbridge but no sign of any Clara not registered. They did say that any death is registered in the District where they died and not always the area but I still can't see any potential Clara's other than the certificates I have already answered.

The only 2 options I think I now have are

1. Try the Brentford death or maybe one of the Clara Rolfe's in case the used the wrong surname ie that of her daughter Isabel or

2. Give up!!!! Probably driven everyone crazy with my obsession and sometimes you need to know when to say enough is enough and face facts that not everyone can be found

Steven