Poor little Jane

[Gardengirl]

Can anyone help to shed some light on the short life of baby Jane Roberts, daughter of Robert Roberts and Jane nee Collins?

From the GRO I have her birth and death dates

Birth - Q1 1845 Northampton Union - Jane Roberts MMN Collins Vol 15 Page 333
Death - Q1 1845 Northampton Union - Jane Roberts Age at Death - 0 Vol 15 Page 254

I bought the digital image of her death which gives the date as 7th May 1845 but that is Q2 not Q1

1845 Jane Roberts death.jpg

There is another Jane Roberts death in the GRO which is Q2
Q2 1845 Northampton Union Jane Roberts Age at Death - 0 Vol 15 Page 244

From FMP I found a burial in the England Deaths & Burials 1538-1991

First name(s) Jane
Last name Roberts
Sex Female
Event year 1845
Burial year 1845
Burial date 23 Feb 1845 (which is Q1)
Burial place St. Sepulchre, Northampton, Northampton, England
Place Northampton
County Northamptonshire
Country England
Record set England Deaths & Burials 1538-1991
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Burials
Collections from England, Great Britain

I haven't got an Ancestry sub at the moment but I looked on FMP for her burial in the Northampton records and found nothing.

So two questions...
Have the GRO sent me the wrong record?
Why can't I find her burial in the Northamptonshire records?

[cbcarolyn]

there is this on Ancestry, not sure it helps! not finding much else

[Gardengirl]

Thanks, Carolyn, that confirms the burial in February but gives her age as 11 months. The certificate that I got from the GRO has that corrected to 11 weeks but gives the date of death as 7th May.

Maybe I should contact the GRO for an explanation?

[Gwyn in Kent]

Do you know for sure that Robert the tailor and his wife Jane are your family and parents of Jane?

Searching for answers re. Jane, I note that GRO has another birth around the same time for a Jane Roberts mmn. Collins.
Hoping to find a baptism, which might show a birth date, I drew a blank, but interestingly Ancestry shows baptisms in June 1845 for 4 children of Robert and Jane of Scartletwell Street.

.... not that this helps your quest

A child with a 7 May death and registered the next day cannot be the February burial, but as you say should be recorded in Q2 of the GRO index.

[Gardengirl]

That's odd. I didn't see that before but the second entry says 'occasional copy' - What does that mean?

Jane Roberts GRO births.jpg

[Gardengirl]

Do you know for sure that Robert the tailor and his wife Jane are your family and parents of Jane?

Searching for answers re. Jane, I note that GRO has another birth around the same time for a Jane Roberts mmn. Collins.
Hoping to find a baptism, which might show a birth date, I drew a blank, but interestingly Ancestry shows baptisms in June 1845 for 4 children of Robert and Jane of Scartletwell Street.

.... not that this helps your quest

A child with a 7 May death and registered the next day cannot be the February burial, but as you say should be recorded in Q2 of the GRO index.

Gwyn, I'm pretty sure it is the right family but as her life was so short I only have birth, MMN and death to go on. I haven't found a baptism for her.

I'd forgotten that I can search on Ancestry without an active subscription so I'll see if I can find those other baptisms. Thank you

[Gardengirl]

This is the family as I have it at the moment.

I have found baptisms for Mary, Robert, Edward and Louisa (joint baptism in 1845) and Harriet and William (joint baptism in 1841)

I have not yet found baptisms for John 1 who died aged 1y 10m, Jane who died age 11weeks, John 2 (still alive in 1851 census) and Caroline who died aged 2y.

roberts family.jpg

I think I need to look for later census returns but I don't think that will help with my original question about Baby Jane.

[teasie]

"Occasional Copy A" usually means that there has been an alteration to the original entry after it has been submitted to the GRO.

Usually the original Volume/Page reference is unchanged apart from the addition of the words 'Occasional Copy A', but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Impossible to say with certainty just from the references, but it looks like there's also been a re-registration.

FreeBMD has only one entry for the birth (Vol 15 Page 333), which is the original quarterly submission, but they have both of the death entries.

On the surface it certainly looks like there's been a bit of a mess in registering both the birth and death, so in your shoes I'd be contacting the GRO for an explanation.

[Gardengirl]

Wrote this yesterday but apparently forgot to press the Post button.....

Thanks, teasie

I have written to the GRO for clarification and have also done a bit more delving.

It would appear that there was another Jane Roberts birth in 1844 MMN ROE so I hoped that this Jane was the death that was registered in Q1 1845 and the burial that was recorded in Feb 1845. The age given was 11 months which works for a child born in Mar 1845 but the address is given as Scarletswell Street which is where the other Roberts family children (MMN Collins) lived.

So I am totally . I just can't get my head round any possible explanation for all this.

HELP!!!!!

[Gardengirl]

Free BMD has these... I could just order them all but not all are available as digital copies - some are pdf only which will make it an expensive exercise.

Jane Roberts FreeBMD births and deaths.jpg

[vera2013]

Possibly adding to the confusion. There are other children b in Northampton mmn Roe. Wonder if the Jane b 1844 d 1845 aged 11/12 is dau of Edward and Harriet. Previous child of theirs Hannah Maria/Ann Maria b 1843 Scaletmell St d 1843. Edward and Harriet in 1851 living at Scarletmell St

Vera

[teasie]

It would appear that there was another Jane Roberts birth in 1844 MMN ROE so I hoped that this Jane was the death that was registered in Q1 1845 and the burial that was recorded in Feb 1845. The age given was 11 months which works for a child born in Mar 1845 but the address is given as Scarletswell Street which is where the other Roberts family children (MMN Collins) lived.

Edward & Harriett Roberts (nee ROE) lived in Scarletswell Street.

1841: Edward Roberts 30, Harriet 25, Alfred 1 (House No. not stated)
1851: Edward Roberts 42 Harriet 36, Alfred 11, Charles 5, Charlotte 7m (all living at No 63 Scarletswell Street)
1861: Edward Roberts 51, Harriet 42, Alfred 21, Emma (his wife) 18, Charles 15, Hannah 8, Harriett 2 (all living at No 63 Scarletswell Street)

However, there's this census in Silver Street, All Saints, Northampton, in 1851
Robert Roberts 45 Tailor b St Giles, Northampton
Jane 43 wife
Edward 14 son
William 14 son
Louise 7 daughter
John 4 son
Caroline 1 daughter
Hannah ROE 75 mother

A Hannah Roberts married George Roe in 1830, and in 1841 there is a Hannah ROE 65 and Mary ROBERTS 25 living together at Spring Street.

Unfortunately I think you need those certificates, or a decent explanation from the GRO, to make any sense of it all 😕

[Gardengirl]

Thank you, Vera and Teasie! That certainly starts to make sense of what was going on and gives me plenty to work on. I think I need to sit down tomorrow with a big piece of paper, a pencil and a rubber!

Hopefully I will also get a reply from the GRO fairly quickly too.