Look up and help needed: Ann White Walker

[PhotoFamily]

I'm looking for the details of this marriage:

Thomas Walker

Male

Ann White

Female

24 Jun 1836

Camberwell, Surrey, England, United Kingdom

Saint Giles, Camberwell, Surrey, England

Marriage

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV6N-9Q2

Hoping to get her father's name, ages if they're there, witnesses.

Also, I'm unable to locate their death/burial records (Ann or Thomas). It's so common a name, and I'm not certain of where they might have died, much less what registration district it might be assigned to.

Thomas and Ann must have lived in Australia for a period of time, as one of there children was born there.

Thank you!

[Lin Fisher]

Found marriage and sent it via e-mail. Not very clear but the best there was.

[Lin Fisher]

I am not good at London area with research. Will leave the death to someone else. Sorry

[PhotoFamily]

Thanks - interesting that they married by licence. Also, I think the surname of the first witness became his son's middle name (I think it says Brownell). Probably groom's good friend or his lineage? Just a guess.

Does anyone see the license online?

[Lin Fisher]

I did have a license but didn't find one.

[Katarzyna]

Is this the same family?

WALKER, THOMAS mmn WHITE
GRO Reference: 1839 S Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 04 Page 56

born 19 July 1839 baptised Thomas Frederick 5th Jul 1840 St Giles, Camberwell.

St Giles Camberwell.jpg
edit:
Answering my own question as another son born with Brownell as middle name.

WALKER, EDWARD BROWNELL mmn WHITE
GRO Reference: 1838 M Quarter in REIGATE UNION Volume 04 Page 369

Baptised 17 Oct 1838 Saint Peter, Walworth, Surrey, England

[Katarzyna]

1851 Census,
Victoria Cottage, Lewisham Village, Kent

Thomas Walker 38 b Reigate, Surrey (As marriage cert) Actuary
Anna Walker 49 b Kennington, Middlesex
Edward B Walker 13
Thomas F Walker 11
Anne H Walker 8
Rose E Walker 5
Eleanor Feweter 18

[PhotoFamily]

Two really common names...not easy to find their deaths. I didn't find them in 1881 nor '91, so they might both have died in the 1871/81 time frame.

Gosh, you'd think he would have had an estate to report via probate. Maybe it's time for me to go thru the Probate index year by year...

[Katarzyna]

They must have travelled to Australia and back between the 1841 and 1851 censuses.

Name: Ann Esther Walker
Gender: Female
Baptism Age: 0
Birth Date: 28 Jul 1842
Birth Place: New South Wales, Australia
Baptism Date: 10 Sep 1842
Baptism Place: St. Philip, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Residence Date: 1842
Residence Place: New South Wales, Australia
Father: Thomas Walker
Mother: Ann
FHL Film Number: 993954

I can't see a passenger list for them.

He was with his daughter Ann Ester in 1881 as a widow living in Paddington and in 1891 Paddington, Ann Ester was living as head with boarders - no Thomas.
Unless he went into a home or hospital at that time I can't see a death for him between those dates or a will. As a barrister, I would have thought he would have a will.
There are several trees mostly rubbish with no baps or refs for the births of the children.

[PhotoFamily]

I think this is his probate record
Thomas died on 29 October 1883 and their estate passed probate on 30 January 1884 in England, United Kingdom
Thomas Walker probate on 30 Jan 1884 in England, United Kingdom. Died 29 Oct 1883.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6FP8-PQRH

The will of Thomas Walker, late of Plumstead in the County of Kent who died 29 Oct 1883 at Plumstead...by Solomon Walker of Romsey, the brother ...

I can't pinpoint that death on FreeBMD? Maybe it's not him if the age is off?

This is his family tree on FS

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/M5N6-T5H

[PhotoFamily]

Her on WikiTree. Her maiden name is White.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Unknown-361669

That's them in the 1871 in Plumstead. They should (!) be in the 1881 - or at least he should be!

[PhotoFamily]

He was with his daughter Ann Ester in 1881 as a widow living in Paddington and in 1891 Paddington, Ann Ester was living as head with boarders - no Thomas.
Unless he went into a home or hospital at that time I can't see a death for him between those dates or a will. As a barrister, I would have thought he would have a will.
There are several trees mostly rubbish with no baps or refs for the births of the children.

Missed that.
So, 1881 on FS

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q279-ZBB5

I agree - he should have a probate record, unless he managed to lose it all in his last years.

That he was in the 1881 and not in the 1891 would match the Probate record I found, even if no corresponding DC was found?

[PhotoFamily]

No, that probate seems to be related to a different Walker family

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGBS-SDP

[Katarzyna]

On 1881 census Robert is father to HOH Ann Esther Walker but with them is Ann's cousin Selina S Walker.
Selina's father is John Walker b 1817 Kensington- a Jeweller.
Robert on most censuses is 'born Kensington'.
Both John and Robert were registered at the Dr Williams Library b Kensington together with Alfred, William, Martha Vine and Amelia.
I have the images if you need them.
Martha Vine is with her parents Thomas and Martha Walker on 1841 census Reading, Berkshire
Piece: 35 Book: 1 Folio:7 Page number:8

Marriage:
Name:Thomas Walker
Marriage Date: 9 May 1811
Marriage Place: Tilehurst, Berkshire, England
Spouse: Martha Vines
FHL Film Number: 88445

A couple of the registrations - birthdate in the final column.

1567-1936 non con and non parochial reg Dr Williams Library.jpg

[Katarzyna]

Well off family:

Thomas Walker senior b c 1781 : Lodging house keeper

Thomas b 23 Apr 1812 - Barrister,
Martha b 23 Jun 1813 marries Philip Davies a Tea Merchant/dealer
Amelia b 3 Aug 1825 marries Charles Brown a Silversmith
Alfred b 8 Nov 1815 wine merchant
William b 26 Oct 1818 Wine merchant
John b 20 Mar 1817 jeweller

another son found:

Name Edward Vines Walker
Event Type Birth
Birth Date 22 Sep 1814
Birth Place St Margaret and St John Westminster, Middlesex, England
Father Thomas Walker
Mother Martha Vines

[PhotoFamily]

I love Dr William's Library records

I've wondered about that marriage by license - were they just being fashionably extravagant and buying the license, was it because he was not of the parish, was it because of their age difference. And now - was it because he was from a Dissenter family.

So, Ann's death is still unknown, but apparently happened between 1871 (living in Plumstead w/ Thomas) and 1881, when Thomas is widowed living with daughter.

Thomas was found in the 1881, but not found in 1891, presumably he died in between, but no probate found for him and DC hasn't been found among the dozens of Thomas Walker possibilities.

It seems unlikely that they moved overseas in the last years of their lives?

Or I suppose he could have gone to live with a different child, or a hospital, and died in a different county and/or they reported a wrong DOB?

[Katarzyna]

1881 says Robert is a widower. so death for Ann between 71 and 81.
It's strange neither death was found unless there is an age discrepancy.

[PhotoFamily]

FreeBMD reports this death as age 71 - I think it's probably the Ann I'm searching for - of course, no way to know without purchasing the cert

Ann Walker
74
1872
Kensington, London, England
Death
Kensington
129
1A
263
Oct-Nov-Dec
1872
1798

[Katarzyna]

WALKER, ANN 63
GRO Reference: 1872 M Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 01D Page 419

Had you dismissed this one?

[PhotoFamily]

WALKER, ANN 63
GRO Reference: 1872 M Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 01D Page 419

Had you dismissed this one?

The age doesn't work as well as the other one - Ann was about 12 years older than Thomas per census records (except one), so in 1872 she could have been about 70-71.

No, I haven't dismissed any of them - I'd need the DC or a burial to confirm it was her.