Question about proof of identity for marriages in the 40s

[Searcher64]

Hi all. Some of you may remember my post about a year ago when I was looking for some info on my grandad who seemed to disappear off the face of the earth (records-wise at least). I am still searching and I think my error has been that I actually trusted info given on the marriage certificate when he married my grandmother. Here’s my question: Does anybody know whether parties to a marriage would have to show any kind of proof that they are who they say they are back in the 40s?

[Anne in Carlisle]

No, no kind of proof was needed as far as I know. I didn't have to prove who I was in 1969!

Anne

[Jill on the A272]

Me neither, and mum fibbed about her address in 1955 as her home was technically just into the parish next door so she gave her uncle's address at the village post office instead.

[Searcher64]

Me neither, and mum fibbed about her address in 1955 as her home was technically just into the parish next door so she gave her uncle's address at the village post office instead.

Uh oh So, you could say you were whoever you pleased, living wherever you pleased and could already be married 😞 That makes things impossible when dealing with someone who lied his way through life.

[Jill on the A272]

Things may have tightened up now.

[PhotoFamily]

Uh oh So, you could say you were whoever you pleased, living wherever you pleased and could already be married 😞 That makes things impossible when dealing with someone who lied his way through life.

Wasn't that the point of reading the banns, and being of the parish? If you were married in church, you were supposed to be known to the rector. Otherwise you needed a licence and make your allegation and bond.

Jill on the A272 somewhere I seem to remember reading that simply by putting your suitcase at a parish address established residency in the parish.

AntonyM is such a good resource for information.

[kylejustin]

People lied about basically anything on a marriage record. If already suspicious, i would only trust what information could be verified.

my great grandmother said she was a spinster when she married in 1918. But i found out she had previously married in 1911 age 17. There is no trace of a divorce. She may have married bigamously, but her prior husband may not have been legally divorced himself when they wed. It seems he was checking whether the first divorce was finalised, decades later when married to his third wife!

[cbcarolyn]

like PhotoFamily says that is the theory of it being 'published' for a few weeks before eg banns/reg office notice. someone is supposed to notice!

Hence lots of trees looking for fathers that in fact never existed with illegitimate children

Might be different now, as we do have a few IDs but back then not much you could do to prove who you were.

[Searcher64]

People lied about basically anything on a marriage record. If already suspicious, i would only trust what information could be verified.

my great grandmother said she was a spinster when she married in 1918. But i found out she had previously married in 1911 age 17. There is no trace of a divorce. She may have married bigamously, but her prior husband may not have been legally divorced himself when they wed. It seems he was checking whether the first divorce was finalised, decades later when married to his third wife!

Thanks for that. The problem I have is I have nothing that can be verified 😂 The marriage certificate and the Decree Absolute is all I have. No proof of name, birth, addresses, not even his death. I’ve been looking on and off for over a year and have got no further.

[Searcher64]

like PhotoFamily says that is the theory of it being 'published' for a few weeks before eg banns/reg office notice. someone is supposed to notice!

Hence lots of trees looking for fathers that in fact never existed with illegitimate children

Might be different now, as we do have a few IDs but back then not much you could do to prove who you were.

I actually got excited that I might be able to get something from the 1921 census because he would have only been around 15 at that point and living with parents still. Now that I’m not sure that he even gave the correct name on the marriage certificate I wouldn’t know where to start 😂 All I can be sure of is he was male!

Thanks everyone. If anyone can think of something I may have missed, please let me know 😊

[GallowayLass]

like PhotoFamily says that is the theory of it being 'published' for a few weeks before eg banns/reg office notice. someone is supposed to notice!

Hence lots of trees looking for fathers that in fact never existed with illegitimate children

Might be different now, as we do have a few IDs but back then not much you could do to prove who you were.

Nowadays when proofs are asked for, you’d hope that everything on a certificate is correct but I feel that no longer having the forthcoming marriages list on display in the window of the registration office due to the Freedom of Information Act and other privacy laws of recent times is a retrograde step. I don’t know the position in England but up here in Scotland, if you want to see the list of forthcoming marriages, you have to go in to the registration office and ask to see it. It is not displayed publicly anywhere. This is due to some people having objected to their names being on public display. It’s been that way for a number of years now. Similar objections resulted in the withdrawal of the summaries of divorces from researchers in ScotlandsPeople centres.

[Searcher64]

Nowadays when proofs are asked for, you’d hope that everything on a certificate is correct but I feel that no longer having the forthcoming marriages list on display in the window of the registration office due to the Freedom of Information Act and other privacy laws of recent times is a retrograde step. I don’t know the position in England but up here in Scotland, if you want to see the list of forthcoming marriages, you have to in to the registration office and ask to see it. It is not displayed publicly anywhere. This is due to some people having objected to their names being on public display. It’s been that way for a number of years now. Similar objections resulted in the withdrawal of the summaries of divorces from researchers in ScotlandsPeople centres.

Thanks for that. I seem to remember that when I got married in the early 90s my now ex husband had to get a marriage licence. Maybe that was not the case, but if he did, surely he would have had to prove his identity to get that. Anyway, I suppose that doesn’t help me at all as this marriage was in 1940 when no proof was necessary.

[cbcarolyn]

I actually got excited that I might be able to get something from the 1921 census because he would have only been around 15 at that point and living with parents still. Now that I’m not sure that he even gave the correct name on the marriage certificate I wouldn’t know where to start 😂 All I can be sure of is he was male!

Thanks everyone. If anyone can think of something I may have missed, please let me know 😊

fyi 1921 census half price today

repost on the original thread with all of the firm information you have, always new records coming out. unless he didn't know who his father was, there wouldn't necessarily be any reason to lie. So could be true you just can't find him.

[Searcher64]

fyi 1921 census half price today

repost on the original thread with all of the firm information you have, always new records coming out. unless he didn't know who his father was, there wouldn't necessarily be any reason to lie. So could be true you just can't find him.

Thanks Carolyn.

I saw that it was half price today. He has his father’s name and occupation on marriage certificate, but nothing came up for that either. Could be his dad’s occupation at time of death and not necessarily lifetime occupation. I will take your advice and repost with all details I have.

Thanks again 😊

[PhotoFamily]

DNA testing has revealed identities of bio-parents (and bio-grandparents). Always wait for a sale.

If you know of a direct male line descendant, and you don't get clear results from autosomal testing, it may be worth trying a Y-DNA test to confirm a surname.

Last - it could be that he didn't know who his father was.

[Searcher64]

DNA testing has revealed identities of bio-parents (and bio-grandparents). Always wait for a sale.

If you know of a direct male line descendant, and you don't get clear results from autosomal testing, it may be worth trying a Y-DNA test to confirm a surname.

Last - it could be that he didn't know who his father was.

Thank you 😊 He has named his father and his father’s occupation but also that his father was deceased at time of marriage. Today, I found only two likely candidates who matched the name with a son with the same name as my grandfather. However, they were both still alive at time of marriage and had different occupations. So frustrating as I’ve hundreds of people in my tree on the other side of my family and had no problems 🤨 I’m no further than when I started with this one.

[PhotoFamily]

So...you have tested? Maybe start a thread on the DNA section?

[Sylvia C]

FWIW .............I have just found and buried my great grandmother after about 15 years of searching for her after she left her husband between the 1891 and 1901 censuses. I've found bits and pieces over the years, but could never pin-point a possible death ............ she had a very common name for the period.

She's a patient in the Workhouse on the 1921 census, and that led me to a definite ID of her on GRO and the correct burial register. She died in 1922, with her residence being given as her son's address, a house I knew well because my grandparents or their son still lived there until around 1990. I'm now waiting for a PDF death certificate to find out the last bit of information.

I also have many "errors" on marriage certificates, from wrong ages to wrong fathers, fathers declared deceased when they weren't dead or alive when they were dead, and on and on.


This may be an unnecessary question ................ but have you used the * to mark a missing letter or letters in order to find possible mis-spellings???

[Searcher64]

FWIW .............I have just found and buried my great grandmother after about 15 years of searching for her after she left her husband between the 1891 and 1901 censuses. I've found bits and pieces over the years, but could never pin-point a possible death ............ she had a very common name for the period.

She's a patient in the Workhouse on the 1921 census, and that led me to a definite ID of her on GRO and the correct burial register. She died in 1922, with her residence being given as her son's address, a house I knew well because my grandparents or their son still lived there until around 1990. I'm now waiting for a PDF death certificate to find out the last bit of information.

I also have many "errors" on marriage certificates, from wrong ages to wrong fathers, fathers declared deceased when they weren't dead or alive when they were dead, and on and on.


This may be an unnecessary question ................ but have you used the * to mark a missing letter or letters in order to find possible mis-spellings???

Hi Sylvia,

Thanks so much for your reply. Firstly, I am so glad you solved that piece of the puzzle regarding your grandmother 😊 Common names make searching for people a nightmare. If you succeeded after all those years, there’s hope for me yet. Yes, I’ve tried the asterisk to search too because I’d noticed so many misspellings on censuses and certificates, etc.

Knowing the kind of man I am looking for should have told me there was no reason to believe any of the info for him on the wedding certificate. I think that very fact is what has brought me to so many dead ends.

Thanks for your reply 😊

[Searcher64]

So...you have tested? Maybe start a thread on the DNA section?

Hi PhotoFamily,

No, I haven’t tested. Maybe that’s something I could look into when there is a special price on. It’s certainly a possibility, and it could turn out it’s not even his name on the certificate! That would have saved me a whole year’s searching for a made up name.

Thank you 😊