Why isn't there an entry for everyone on Probate?

[cbcarolyn]

I am sure I can google these answers - but been pondering on these questions!

If someone dies without a will there is often (but not always) an entry on probate: "Administration", why is there not an entry for pretty much every death is it based on above a certain value? I feel that most people would have something even if only a few hundred pounds.

When did it become necessary to go through probate?

[Darksecretz]

No clue! maybe they died but didn't have anything of monetary value to pass on to family/relatives. Many of mine actually didn't leave wills or anything like that, items from the family member often were shared out with other family members.

[Caroline]

My mother's will didn't go to probate as she died first - it will all be sorted when my father dies.

[Caroline]

..and when I bought this house there was an issue because the widow apparently hadn't gone to probate when her husband died, so they had to rush it through to ensure she (her own legatees) was entitled to sell the house.

[Jill on the A272]

If the estate is under £10,000 you may not need probate. My dad left a will but less than that amount so we were able to deal with it simply. Mother in law owned her house with her other son, there was something in place which meant her share went automatically to my bro-in-law and the residue was less than £10, 000 so the will didn't go to probate though my husband and his brother had to swear an affidavit at the solicitors.

[Darksecretz]

..and when I bought this house there was an issue because the widow apparently hadn't gone to probate when her husband died, so they had to rush it through to ensure she (her own legatees) was entitled to sell the house.

Wow what a mess!..

[Lin Fisher]

Dad left a will but as he only had about £18,000 left before any expenses and we had power of attorney the bank. which was also the same as my bank just transferred it to my account with the consent of both my brother and myself and I shared it out with him and a small amount going to his 2 grandchildren. We might have had to sign something, can't remember it all. The bank explained it all to us but under the circumstances we didn't take it all in.

[cbcarolyn]

No clue! maybe they died but didn't have anything of monetary value to pass on to family/relatives. Many of mine actually didn't leave wills or anything like that, items from the family member often were shared out with other family members.

it wasn't a specific person I was thinking about. Was just wondering why some people do and others don't, when I am looking. There are instances where they don't have much but still did probate, but sounds like it maybe in as in Lin's and Jill's examples and if you don't need to then you don't, especially if just some cash.

I remember my friend having to do something about her Dad because he had a tiny ISA in his name and no will, and couldn't access it, so maybe POA makes a difference and you do under that power rather than probate.

When searching it didn't occur to me why some were there and others, at first I thought it was just wills in probate search, but clearly lots of 'administrations' so it just got me thinking!

[Anne in Carlisle]

It's a good question! I don't know the answer but it's got me thinking too.

Anne

[cbcarolyn]

It's a good question! I don't know the answer but it's got me thinking too.

Anne

that's good, made me feel better

[webwiz]

Each bank has it's own policy on releasing funds without probate. NatWest's is £15,000 (or was when my brother died in 2010) . He had £18,000 in his account so the bank paid for his funeral to get it below the limit and released the rest to me as his next-of-kin. Other banks have lower limits and possibly Lin's bank had a higher limit or maybe they did the same funeral cost trick.

[cbcarolyn]

Each bank has it's own policy on releasing funds without probate. NatWest's is £15,000 (or was when my brother died in 2010) . He had £18,000 in his account so the bank paid for his funeral to get it below the limit and released the rest to me as his next-of-kin. Other banks have lower limits and possibly Lin's bank had a higher limit or maybe they did the same funeral cost trick.

How interesting - who knew - that makes sense.

I think this ISA my friend had was with a BS so maybe they have no limit and you have to do it. I remember my friend was trying to find a way around paying a sum to get it released - which was about half the value. Think as the solicitor was charging.

[Lin Fisher]

Dad died in 2017 and his funeral had been paid for but there was the wake and some of his nursing home fees to be paid and got it down a bit. Even if you have POA, I think you have to register with the bank so you can get access to his bank account. I only learnt all this the hard way when you have to!!

[Darksecretz]

Dad died in 2017 and his funeral had been paid for but there was the wake and some of his nursing home fees to be paid and got it down a bit. Even if you have POA, I think you have to register with the bank so you can get access to his bank account. I only learnt all this the hard way when you have to!!

I had to get letters of administration to sort out my mums effects when she died. Had to go and have an interview with the probate people in Nottingham.

[cbcarolyn]

Process seems a bit hit and miss if registered with Probate then, guess it has always been like that.

[teasie]

Yes, there's a financial limit, but only assets held solely by the deceased should count towards this. Anything held jointly (eg a joint bank account) automatically transfers to the survivor so probate isn't needed.

If there's a property involved then it depends on whether the owners are joint tenants (owned jointly) or tenants in common (each own a specific %). Joint tenants inherit automatically (although the land registry will need updating to remove the deceased person's name), but where the deceased was a tenant in common then their % has to be dealt with either in accordance with their will, or the under the rules of intestacy.

If the persons only assets were savings then in most cases probate isn't needed, but each organisation has its own limits/rules.

When mum died she owned 50% of her house as Tenant in Common with dad and had left a will detailing who should inherit it, so this needed probate. However, the building society allowed dad to access to her cash ISA (around £8k) without it. For her stocks & shares ISA (around £12k & held elsewhere) we needed probate and the money was paid to me as executor.

Dad is now in a care home, and as he only owns 50% of the house (my sister & I each received half of mums 50%), they can only count the value of his half when calculating any contribution to fees. If he & mum had owned it jointly then he'd own (and they'd count) the full 100%.

You'll often find that probate is needed when the surviving person eventually dies, as all of the assets previously held jointly are now solely theirs, making it more likely that they'll have reached the financial limit.

Banks etc are also often stricter when the deceased was a widow/widower, which is understandable as there's a greater chance of family disputes amongst the children.

You don't need a solicitor to obtain probate - me & my sister did it ourselves, which was miles cheaper and not as difficult as we'd feared.

[Elwyn]

The Courts & Tribunal website says that probate is not always required, especially if assets are in joint names or the amount of money in financial institutions is not too great (the ceiling varies from bank to bank) as they will often release it without a probate grant.

https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate

In those cases, if there is a will it never makes it to the Probate Office.

I saw something on the Scotlandspeople site (which I can't immediately locate) which mentioned that even in the 1960s only about 60% of Scots left wills. Presumably England & Wales was similar.

[Darksecretz]

That's right teasie I dealt with my mums affairs and it wasn't anywhere near as daunting [as I thought it might be] for me to do it all myself without a solicitor.