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    Yardley Brickwall

    My ancestor, Maud Ethel Yardley was born Nov 1887 in Nottingham, Nottinghamshire to William Yardley and Emma Smith, according to her birth certificate.
    We have been completely unable to find anything on either of her parents though, the only known was her father being a commercial traveller.
    In 1901, Maud lives with another Yardley family in Surrey and is classified as a "sister". The former head of that family was an Edward Hamilton Yardley (d. 1893). By 1910 Maud married Herbert George Payne and went on to have several children, including a son she named Charles Hamilton Payne.
    We don't know what to think of Maud's childhood, nor her parentage. Edward Hamilton Yardley was also a commercial traveller, so the thought did enter our minds of he being the legitimate father and the rest of the family waiting until his wife died in 1913 to tell Maud the truth...hence her adding Hamilton to Charles name in 1915.
    This is pure speculation though.
    Really, we'd like to find Maud's parentage and track the correct Yardley family.
    I look forward to any input!

    #2
    There are two girls with this name, yours and one born Dec 1890 in St Olave. The latter appears in the 1891 census:
    • Birth Circa 1890 - Bermondsey, London
    • Residence1891 - 3 Providence Pl, Bermondsey, London, England
    • Parents Edward H Yardley, Sarah Yardley
    • Siblings Frederick Yardley, Bertie Yardley
    However by 1901 this Maud has disappeared, possibly the girl who died Mar 1891 aged 1 in Coventry, and been replaced by the other one. Although geographically far apart the two families must have been closely related for the members to reshuffle so it seems likely that all the children were Edward's. As a commercial traveller he would have been well placed to have two separate families. Bertie is 17 years older than Maud so if they are siblings it looks like Edward had the two families consecutively rather than concurrently. As for the William who is shown as Maud's father on the birth register, if this speculation is right then that is a pseudonym for Edward.

    DNA might provide the answer.
    People: Canton, Wiseman, Colthup, Scrace
    Places: Pembrokeshire, Kent.

    Comment


      #3
      what did her marriage cert say about her father, you don't say. Was it the same as the birth cert?
      Carolyn
      Family Tree site

      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

      Comment


        #4
        It does look mysterious, have you traced the family she is with in 1901 back? I can see that the children have MMN of Lake and that Ann and Edward Hamilton Yardley were married in 1856, and had many children, last born I think 1881 Alfred, all in Bermondsey area. Can't see Maud with Lake MMN

        He died in 1893 and probate is admin to Ann Yardley. He is often referred to as a commercial clerk

        then there is the one that Webwiz has found all the children have MMN Barker including Maud
        Last edited by cbcarolyn; 03-09-21, 22:54.
        Carolyn
        Family Tree site

        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by webwiz View Post
          There are two girls with this name, yours and one born Dec 1890 in St Olave. The latter appears in the 1891 census:
          • Birth Circa 1890 - Bermondsey, London
          • Residence1891 - 3 Providence Pl, Bermondsey, London, England
          • Parents Edward H Yardley, Sarah Yardley
          • Siblings Frederick Yardley, Bertie Yardley
          However by 1901 this Maud has disappeared, possibly the girl who died Mar 1891 aged 1 in Coventry, and been replaced by the other one. Although geographically far apart the two families must have been closely related for the members to reshuffle so it seems likely that all the children were Edward's. As a commercial traveller he would have been well placed to have two separate families. Bertie is 17 years older than Maud so if they are siblings it looks like Edward had the two families consecutively rather than concurrently. As for the William who is shown as Maud's father on the birth register, if this speculation is right then that is a pseudonym for Edward.

          DNA might provide the answer.
          With regards to the Maud born in 1891, it actually looks like Edward Hamilton Yardley's oldest son Edward Hamilton Jr had a daughter also named Maud Ethel Yardley. Very strange. I can confirm they are 2 different people as I believe around 1910 she married a man named Richard Donegan. I find it incredibly strange the coincidence of the naming. Edward Hamilton and Ann Lake had quite a few children, including Edward Hamilton Jr. There is also a daughter named Mary who married Tom Noble. In 1891, they have a daughter named "Maud Noble" born in 1887 Nottingham whom I actually believe to be my Maud. It's a very tricky situation for tracing.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
            It does look mysterious, have you traced the family she is with in 1901 back? I can see that the children have MMN of Lake and that Ann and Edward Hamilton Yardley were married in 1856, and had many children, last born I think 1881 Alfred, all in Bermondsey area. Can't see Maud with Lake MMN

            He died in 1893 and probate is admin to Ann Yardley. He is often referred to as a commercial clerk

            then there is the one that Webwiz has found all the children have MMN Barker including Maud
            I have tracked the family because I felt that William was a pseudonym as Webwiz said. They have quite a few children, and as you mentioned, no Maud. With regards to the marriage certificate, Maud lists her father as William, but a commercial traveller. Ann Lake died in 1913 I believe and I wondered if it was a family coverup to protect Ann from her husband's infidelities.
            Maud's mother, Emma Smith was the one who registered her birth and she was born at home.

            Comment


              #7
              it does sound plausible, what was the address on the BC? Can see if anything comes up in the papers. Shame Emma is a Smith.

              the only other thing would be that they were cousins, but no brother William.

              I am a bit confused by this
              "There is also a daughter named Mary who married Tom Noble. In 1891, they have a daughter named "Maud Noble" born in 1887 Nottingham whom I actually believe to be my Maud. It's a very tricky situation for tracing." Emma Smiths Maud is probably not yours anyway? not sure why she would put William as her father though?
              Carolyn
              Family Tree site

              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

              Comment


                #8
                My suspicion is that Maud's mother is Emma Yardley, and that 'Smith' is a red herring. I also agree that "Maud Noble" is probably Maud Yardley - and she is with Emma in both 1891 & 1901:

                1891 Trafalgar Road, Camberwell - RG12/491/65/53
                Tom Noble 59 Traveller b Greenwich
                Mary Noble 34 wife b Bermondsey
                Maud Noble 3 daur b Nottingham
                Emma Yardley 30 sister b Bermondsey [relationship should say sister-in-law)


                1901 Dartnell Rd, Camberwell - RG13/520/25/37
                Bertie Yardley 30 single
                Ann Yardley 63 mother
                Emma Yardley 40 Daur (crossed out, then) Sister
                Alfred Yardley 20 Brother
                Maud Yardley 13 Sister
                All born Bermondsey except Maud, b Nottingham

                As the original census returns were destroyed we don't know if Maud was originally described as Sister, or as something different. There has clearly been an alteration to Emma's description, so the enumerator may have altered the others too.

                Alternatively the family may simply be trying to cover up Maud's illegitimacy by firstly saying she is the daughter of one of Emma's sister's, and then saying she is Emma (and Bertie's) sister.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Honestly, I never considered the "Smith" to be a red herring, but now that you point it out, it makes so much sense. Maud's censuses always place her with Emma Yardley, whom I initially thought to be a much older sister. Instead, I suppose we could surmise that Emma Yardley is the mother, and Edward Hamilton is not the father, because obviously that would be an incredibly dark secret. More likely, as you point out, it seems that as Emma never married, the family tried to hide the illegitimacy of her daughter's birth.
                  From this, I suppose it will be impossible to tell who the father is.
                  I have yet to find a baptism record for Maud, either in Nottingham or in Bermondsey.

                  With regards to the address on Maud's birth certificate, it appears to say 46 Hockley, Nottingham...although it is a bit difficult to read.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Oh heck, it looks like Emma ended up in Manor Asylum, Epsom, where she died 20 Oct 1911, and her brother, Alfred, was in Caterham Asylum. Gives her mother's address but no mention of Maud.

                    9th from bottom & goes onto next page: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...81&cat=1134797

                    Before that she was in the workhouse a couple of times, but there doesn't seem to be any mention of family members in those records.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      It doesn't really help, but it looks like Maud was admitted to the workhouse at least once as well - 5th from bottom - the address given is 45 Dartnell Road, same as the 1901 census.

                      https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...83&cat=1134797

                      I don't have time to look now, but if you're extremely lucky there may be some more records that haven't been transcribed that might add some further information about the various relationships.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The Maud that married Payne and stated her father was William, is not a descendent? or is she, not sure which you are trying to get to? or do you need them all unravelling?
                        Carolyn
                        Family Tree site

                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                          #13
                          following on from Teasies post - this could be a red herring
                          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...ce&pId=6892274

                          Dates tie up with possible pregnancy
                          in workhouse, with what looks like a daughter Lilian
                          that could be this record:
                          YARDLEY, LILIAN MAUD -
                          GRO Reference: 1907 S Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 01D Page 795
                          Last edited by cbcarolyn; 04-09-21, 07:36.
                          Carolyn
                          Family Tree site

                          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Not a red herring here is the baptism same address 45 Dartnell Road

                            https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...&pId=318130161
                            Carolyn
                            Family Tree site

                            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Just realised that this is the same child as you have as Lilian Payne, you already had the address of Dartnell Road.
                              Carolyn
                              Family Tree site

                              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Everyone has done a lot of research which is great and can't add to it but Hockley in Nottingham is near the town centre and had a lot of shops on it which have been there for years.
                                Lin

                                Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  I did wonder why the birth was registered in Hockley, thought maybe there was a family member living there, and Emma had been sent there to have the baby.
                                  Carolyn
                                  Family Tree site

                                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Thanks for all the replies! I haven't been able to find a familial link to Nottingham yet as it seems the Yardley family are Surrey natives for a couple of generations.
                                    Lilian Maud Yardley (Payne) was born to Maud in 1907, as mentioned. We don't know who her father is, but there is a possibility that Herbert is as he would have been about 18 at the time.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      My Nans cousin had a child and she was known as her sister for many, many years, my Mum knew later in her life that she was her daughter, she can't remember how or why they knew, and she only said when I started doing the family tree.

                                      I remember staying with them on holiday as a teenager, and I am sure even then they were 'sisters'. Her daughter predeceased her in 95, so maybe it was only then that they knew.

                                      I our case my Mum said it was suspected that one of the brothers were involved :( The cousin, was always frail, and she said she always remember her 'resting', she lived a good long life though (91). Looking back, maybe she had mental health issues if there was trauma involved :(
                                      Last edited by cbcarolyn; 05-09-21, 09:17.
                                      Carolyn
                                      Family Tree site

                                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by LStear View Post
                                        Thanks for all the replies! I haven't been able to find a familial link to Nottingham yet as it seems the Yardley family are Surrey natives for a couple of generations.
                                        Lilian Maud Yardley (Payne) was born to Maud in 1907, as mentioned. We don't know who her father is, but there is a possibility that Herbert is as he would have been about 18 at the time.
                                        it does all seem to link in with the theory of Emma being the mother of Maud, especially as 'Emma' is mother on BC, with the addresses on various docs they certainly are the correct family.

                                        Carolyn
                                        Family Tree site

                                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                        Comment

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