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    Finding Northern Irish records

    Hi all, I've had a mooch around and either not clever enough to use some of the sites or looking in the wrong places

    I have a marriage of James McGahan and Mary Anne Kelly in Faughanvale, Londonderry, Ireland 1868. The citation/record (no image) says that James' father is Patrick McGahan so I've tried looking on Ancestry, Family Search, Irish Geneology etc and can't find a baptism. His death reg. says he was born around 1845 - census records once he's over in England (he's on the 1881 onwards) puts him born anywhere between 1844-1849! I'm guessing that just because they married in Derry/Londonderry doesn't mean he was born there - is this a lost cause as I don't have any other info?

    Thank you.

    Tessie

    #2
    Irish CivReg began in 1864. There's poor online coverage for church records prior to that. RootsIreland has transcribed many available records:
    http://www.rootsireland.ie/

    You could post on Elwyn's thread (research requests, I think?) and ask for search advice, too.
    ------------------------------------------------------
    My Families
    London-area Coverly Family Finder DNA Project

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by tessie31082 View Post
      Hi all, I've had a mooch around and either not clever enough to use some of the sites or looking in the wrong places

      I have a marriage of James McGahan and Mary Anne Kelly in Faughanvale, Londonderry, Ireland 1868. The citation/record (no image) says that James' father is Patrick McGahan so I've tried looking on Ancestry, Family Search, Irish Geneology etc and can't find a baptism. His death reg. says he was born around 1845 - census records once he's over in England (he's on the 1881 onwards) puts him born anywhere between 1844-1849! I'm guessing that just because they married in Derry/Londonderry doesn't mean he was born there - is this a lost cause as I don't have any other info?

      Thank you.

      Tessie
      You can see the image for the 1868 marriage here:
      https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....66/8214288.pdf

      I note it was a Church of Ireland marriage - your best bet for finding his CofI Baptism might well be as suggested by Photofamily.

      Christine.
      Researching:
      HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

      Comment


        #4
        Thank you, I'll go have a look on RootsIreland

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by tessie31082 View Post
          Thank you, I'll go have a look on RootsIreland
          There's a way on RootsIreland that you can see what has been transcribed by county then parish. I think you buy a one-day search pass, so plan ahead for what you want to do. Your peeps might be from Donegal - I have some from there that married in Londonderry.

          Protestant, but really CofI marriages were under CivReg back to 1845
          ------------------------------------------------------
          My Families
          London-area Coverly Family Finder DNA Project

          Comment


            #6
            If you are looking for James’ baptism I’d need to know his denomination. Was he also Church of Ireland or was he RC? If RC, and born in that parish, then the bad news is records only start in 1863 so you won’t find a baptism for him. If he was Church of Ireland though, then their records start in 1802. Faughanvale Presbyterian start in 1819. Not sure if they are on-line though. You might need to go to PRONI in Belfast to look them up.

            The couple were both living in Glebe townland in 1868. I looked in Griffiths Valuation for 1858 and neither surname is listed in Glebe then so it appears they had not always lived there. Labourers can be very hard to trace as they tended to move around to follow the available work.
            Elwyn

            I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Elwyn View Post
              If you are looking for James’ baptism I’d need to know his denomination. Was he also Church of Ireland or was he RC? If RC, and born in that parish, then the bad news is records only start in 1863 so you won’t find a baptism for him. If he was Church of Ireland though, then their records start in 1802. Faughanvale Presbyterian start in 1819. Not sure if they are on-line though. You might need to go to PRONI in Belfast to look them up.

              The couple were both living in Glebe townland in 1868. I looked in Griffiths Valuation for 1858 and neither surname is listed in Glebe then so it appears they had not always lived there. Labourers can be very hard to trace as they tended to move around to follow the available work.
              Elwyn, I'm afraid I have no other info other than the marriage record I found which Karamazov found the actual image of and says is CofI!

              Comment


                #8
                For what it’s worth I found the birth of a daughter Margaret in 1869. Note the variant spelling of surname - it’s making searching tricky! Father James is still a labourer.

                https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....01/2247286.pdf

                Christine



                Researching:
                HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                Comment


                  #9
                  I don't know anything about this site, but it does list surnames for Glebe townland in Faughanvale. Kelly is one of the surnames
                  https://www.emeraldancestors.com/nor...ty=Londonderry
                  ------------------------------------------------------
                  My Families
                  London-area Coverly Family Finder DNA Project

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
                    For what it’s worth I found the birth of a daughter Margaret in 1869. Note the variant spelling of surname - it’s making searching tricky! Father James is still a labourer.

                    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....01/2247286.pdf

                    Christine


                    Hi Christine, it asks me to input the name when I click the link - how's the surname spelt on this record and yes I've found it spelt 3 different ways so far

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by tessie31082 View Post

                      Hi Christine, it asks me to input the name when I click the link
                      It took me right to the record once I had completed the initial start up steps - is it asking for the search name, or for your name?
                      ------------------------------------------------------
                      My Families
                      London-area Coverly Family Finder DNA Project

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by tessie31082 View Post

                        Hi Christine, it asks me to input the name when I click the link - how's the surname spelt on this record and yes I've found it spelt 3 different ways so far
                        That’s to input your name before you can make a search under Section 61 of the Civil Registration Act, 2004

                        I’m so lazy I just input 1 random initial in each box. Just do that and it will take you through to the image where you can see the surname spelling for yourself - on this record it’s McGaughan.

                        The other issue - even though they are resident in Faughanvale, the marriage in Eglinton church is registered in Derry/Londonderry whilst the birth is registered in Newtownlimavady. If you look at this map and zoom out you can see that Glebe looks to be halfway between the two registration places
                        https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry...hanvale/glebe/

                        The birth was registered in the sub-registrar office in Ballykelly which is about three miles west of Limavady, so a shorter trip from their home than trekking to Limavady.

                        Christine
                        Researching:
                        HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Karamazov View Post

                          That’s to input your name before you can make a search under Section 61 of the Civil Registration Act, 2004

                          I’m so lazy I just input 1 random initial in each box. Just do that and it will take you through to the image where you can see the surname spelling for yourself - on this record it’s McGaughan.

                          The other issue - even though they are resident in Faughanvale, the marriage in Eglinton church is registered in Derry/Londonderry whilst the birth is registered in Newtownlimavady. If you look at this map and zoom out you can see that Glebe looks to be halfway between the two registration places
                          https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry...hanvale/glebe/

                          The birth was registered in the sub-registrar office in Ballykelly which is about three miles west of Limavady, so a shorter trip from their home than trekking to Limavady.

                          Christine
                          Thanks - I'm so dumb lol!!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by tessie31082 View Post

                            Elwyn, I'm afraid I have no other info other than the marriage record I found which Karamazov found the actual image of and says is CofI!
                            Yes it was Church of Ireland but tradition was to marry in the bride’s church, so it doesn’t always follow that her husband was the same denomination. There are 65 McGahans in Co. Derry in the 1901 census. All but 2 are RC, so I suspect James was RC and therefore you may not find any baptism for him, if he was born locally, because the records don’t go back that far.


                            Elwyn

                            I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Elwyn View Post

                              Yes it was Church of Ireland but tradition was to marry in the bride’s church, so it doesn’t always follow that her husband was the same denomination. There are 65 McGahans in Co. Derry in the 1901 census. All but 2 are RC, so I suspect James was RC and therefore you may not find any baptism for him, if he was born locally, because the records don’t go back that far.

                              Hi Elwyn,
                              Yes, for the census reason you cite I wondered if one of them were Catholic despite the CoI marriage, in which case you’d generally expect any children to be baptised as Catholic (although I know this is not a hard and fast rule) So I looked in Catholic baptism records doing a really broad search for all Margaret M*s baptised in Co Derry in 1869 and drew a blank - these are the results I got:
                              https://www.findmypast.ie/search/res...ame=m*&sid=999

                              So their religion remains a puzzle...

                              Christine
                              Researching:
                              HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Karamazov View Post

                                Hi Elwyn,
                                Yes, for the census reason you cite I wondered if one of them were Catholic despite the CoI marriage, in which case you’d generally expect any children to be baptised as Catholic (although I know this is not a hard and fast rule) So I looked in Catholic baptism records doing a really broad search for all Margaret M*s baptised in Co Derry in 1869 and drew a blank - these are the results I got:
                                https://www.findmypast.ie/search/res...ame=m*&sid=999

                                So their religion remains a puzzle...

                                Christine
                                If they had daughters who married, what denomination were those ceremonies?
                                Elwyn

                                I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  They only had one daughter Mary but I can't see a marriage for her and they were living in England by that time so not sure I'd be that lucky to find a marriage record instead of just the registration record!

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by tessie31082 View Post
                                    They only had one daughter Mary but I can't see a marriage for her and they were living in England by that time so not sure I'd be that lucky to find a marriage record instead of just the registration record!
                                    Where are they when they move to England, 1871, 1881, 1891, etc. (For my benefit could you summarise info as I don’t have a live ancestry sub - although obvs add ancestry links for convenience for others
                                    Is daughter Margaret born 1869 not with them in any census?

                                    Christine

                                    Researching:
                                    HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Karamazov View Post

                                      Where are they when they move to England, 1871, 1881, 1891, etc. (For my benefit could you summarise info as I don’t have a live ancestry sub - although obvs add ancestry links for convenience for others
                                      Is daughter Margaret born 1869 not with them in any census?

                                      Christine
                                      Christine,

                                      1881 - Bishopwearmouth, Durham

                                      1891 - Longbenton, Northumberland

                                      1901 - Birtley, Durham

                                      Daughter Margaret isn't with them.

                                      Tessie

                                      Comment

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