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A brick wall too far? Joseph Harfoth c1792-3, Marske, Yorks

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    A brick wall too far? Joseph Harfoth c1792-3, Marske, Yorks

    I've traced the Harforth family back to a Joseph. Death, 2nd marriage and census records suggest he was born at Marske, Yorks in 1792-1793 (the 1841 being the exception as he is recorded as 45yo. occ Taylor). The 1859 marriage cert says his dad is John, a weaver.

    I have copies.of the Marske registers; images of PR's, BT's and 1903 Yorks PR Society Transcriptions.

    1786 PR marriage; John Harforth of Marske, occupation Taylor to Ann Renolds, spinster after Banns.

    1788 Baptism, Joseph, son of John a weaver
    1789 Baptism, Hannah, dau of John
    1789 Burial, Hannah, dau of John
    1790 Baptism, John, son of John
    1792 Baptism, Andrew, son of John a weaver

    1794 Marriage, William Harforth of Danby to Sarah Blakey

    1794 Baptism, Hannah, dau of John a weaver
    1794 Baptism, Jane, dau of William a taylor

    1796 Baptism, Rachael, dau of John a taylor
    1799 Baptism, Margaret, dau of John a taylor

    1804 Burial, John son of John, shopkeeper

    There's an odd 1841 in Marske, the names John and Joseph seem to be written overlapping each other, the surname is Harfoth. occ Sail Draper or Sailor and Draper age given is 73.



    1784 burial, John son of John* Harforth----annotation * John has originally been Joseph

    1763 baptism, Joseph G (base begotten) son of Jane Harforth


    Clearly no Joseph except the 1788 baptism, either he wasn't baptised, he's another "John originally Joseph" or he's the 1788 baptism but managed to consistently knock at least 5 years off his age in later life.

    I can't think of any other scenarios but welcome any suggestions.












    http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

    Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
    My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
    My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

    #2
    If the 1859 marriage is the one in Whitby, Joseph Harforth, Widower & General Dealer of Church Street, have you considered that he may also be the Joseph Harforth, Bachelor & Taylor who married Elizabeth Shaw in Whitby on 3 Feb 1808? If this is him then he's unlikely to have been born in 1792/3 as he'd only be 15 at marriage.

    Their children appear to have been John 1809, Joseph 1811, James 1813 & Richard Outhwaite 1818.

    Joseph Jr (b1811) married in Whitby in 1845, giving his address as Church St (the same as Joseph Sr in 1859) and naming his father as Joseph Harforth, Shopkeeper

    ADDED: Elizabeth Harforth of Church Street was buried at Whitby on 25 Dec 1857, aged 71, which fits with the 1859 second marriage for Joseph. I'd say he probably just lobbed a few years of his age, either knowingly or otherwise.

    Comment


      #3
      Don't forget that his age on the 1841 Census could be up to 4 years wrong as ages for people over the age of 15 were rounded down to the nearest 5. So someone shown as 45 could be between the ages of 45 and 49.
      My parents at my brother's wedding, March 1952

      Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

      Comment


        #4
        Assuming he is the 1788 baptism then the age discrepancy in the 1851-1864 period is the same all the way through those records. Based on census, baptism and marriage records 1808-1818 I have the same famly as teasie posted;

        Joseph Harforth was born EST 1788 in Marske, Yorkshire and died 09 Feb 1864 in Whitby. He married Elizabeth Shaw 03 Feb 1808 in St Mary the Virgin, Whitby. She was born EST 1798.

        Children of Joseph Harforth and Elizabeth Shaw:
        i. John Harforth was born ABT 1809 in Whitby
        ii. 2. Joseph Harforth was born ABT 1811 in Whitby>>>>researched through to living relatives
        iii. James Harforth was born 1813 in Whitby
        iv. Richard Outhwaite Harforth was born ABT 1818 in Whitby


        My gut feeling is that as the age is always 4-5 years out it is him and the double entry 1841 at Marske is his brother John bapt 1890. The Marske and Whitby census returns featuring the Harforths are all neat and tidy age wise to the baptism records with the exception of Joseph.

        http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

        Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
        My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
        My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

        Comment


          #5
          Just found this coroner's report 1844, age 35 GRO
          Attached Files
          Elaine

          Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

          http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
          http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

          Comment


            #6
            erm…

            That's really thrown me now, I have a marriage 1845 at Whitby, Joseph to Margaret Brydon and 9 children with Brydon/Bryden/Dryden mmn in the birth index from 1845-1870. The gap between first and last has always bothered me though

            Margaret was born c1829. A death reg in 1915-
            HARFORTH, MARGARET age 87
            GRO Reference: 1915 J Quarter in STOKESLEY Volume 09D Page 871

            So now I'm wondering who this Margaret is

            http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

            Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
            My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
            My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

            Comment


              #7
              Joseph 1788-1864, wife Elizabeth Shaw 1784-1857

              Son Joseph b1811, death in 1881 at Whitby for a 60 year old Joseph which is 10 years out. His wife being the Margaret mentioned in last post 1829-1915.
              http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

              Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
              My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
              My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

              Comment


                #8
                It's a pity that the 1845 marriage does not say anything about being a batchelor or widower
                Elaine

                Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                Comment


                  #9
                  It does actually, fmp have the original register, Joseph a bachelor aged 33, Margaret Brydon spinster aged 22. In the 1841 there is a Martha Harforth aged 30 in Ripley's Buildings, nobody else in the household.

                  If the link works it should show the register on my TP site
                  https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/br...rand=945483635
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                  Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                  My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                  My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Completely missed that below, sorry
                    Elaine

                    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I've got a feeling that a generation back there's someone I haven't found, the family were in Marske pre census but the Marske registers on fmp stop at 1812 and I have a feeling one of the 1890's guys was called John and moved to Whitby but I can't find anything for him.
                      http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                      Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                      My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                      My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                      Comment


                        #12
                        1845 marriage register to Margaret Brydon.
                        Attached Files
                        http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                        Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                        My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                        My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The plot thickens, I've found the 1844 burial register of Margaret aged 35 and now there's a burial of William in 1842 aged 13 days, his usual residence also given as Church Street.

                          I do know there are two Harforth families in Church St and Church Lane in 1841, a father and son? The 1842 and 1844 events have me stumped. I've also found an 1803 and 1808 burial for children named Margaret, daughters of William a shop keeper!
                          http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                          Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                          My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                          My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I wonder if Margaret buried 1844 was also known as Martha?

                            There is a Martha Harforth aged 30 (rounded) in the 1841 census in Whitby, and a Joseph Harforth, tailor, married widow Martha Stockton (nee Ditchburn) in Stockton, Durham in 1838. Martha's father was John Ditchburn, and Joseph's father was also a tailor named Joseph Harforth. Witnesses were Mary Deighton & Thomas Appleby.

                            The marriage bond is on Ancestry, but the other information is from a transcription.

                            Stockton is on the Durham/North Yorkshire border, and is about 15 miles from Marske and about 30 from Whitby. Its on the banks of the river Tees.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              The GRO listing for William Harforth 1842 Whitby has MMN Dixon
                              Elaine

                              Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                              http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                              http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Found a baptism under England births and baptism for William Harforth 7 Oct 1842 to John and Dorothy
                                A John Harforth and Dorothy Dickson/Dickinson married 12 Feb 1822 Whitby, looks more like sailor than tailor and no Harforth witnesses
                                Elaine

                                Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Just found this one 1861 in Stockton

                                  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7HY-W17

                                  Transcribed as Ann Joyett born in Whitby and her son, also Joseph Harforth cousin age 16 born Whitby
                                  Dorothy Harforth aunt age 57 formerly a milliner born Whitby

                                  Elaine

                                  Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                  http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                  http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    1841 Dorothy is in Church Street as Harford

                                    https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQPM-XTX

                                    1851 in Stockton

                                    https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKVC-9TP5

                                    Elaine

                                    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      She is Ann Ayre married William Fryett 2 May 1855 Middlesborough (transcription)
                                      Elaine

                                      Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                      http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                      http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Oh that '41 could be the breakthrough on anther conundrum

                                        1846 a John Harforth, (ship Captain), and his crew abandoned their vessel and took to a boat during a storm. John and another crewman died before the two surviving crew were picked up. Sea conditions prevented the two bodies being recovered from the boat. In1848 (from memory), Dorothy Harforth, widow was in receipt of a pension (army and other pensions records on fmp).

                                        I have a feeling that John is a brother to Joseph

                                        1790 baptism at Marske for John, son of John. a weaver
                                        1788 BT Baptism at Marske, Joseph, son of John a weaver

                                        Several baptism and bmd events at Whitby including John Dickson Harforth son of John & Dorothy along with Dickson Harforth, son of John and Dorothy. I have some mariner tickets and news reports for Dickson Harforth but couldn't find a trace of Dorothy beyond the 1851. It all seems to fit but that '41 return looks very useful.


                                        http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                                        Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                                        My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                                        My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                                        Comment

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