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mateer1987
05-05-19, 20:35
Hi all,

I am looking to research my grandfathers family tree. He passed away just before christmas, he never spoke of his family so it is all a bit of a mystery to me. To my knowledge he didnt have a great life growing up and I am aware that he and his siblings were put into care at Dr Barnardos and then fostered. Other than this I am clueless.

I know his parents Were Arthur Clark (1906) and Rose E C Saunders (1915-1973). His siblings Hazel (1933-1995) Arthur (1934-2004) Thelma (1939-2018) All born in Cambridge

Another mystery was what happened to Arthur as no one knows what happened to him. To my knowledge he went to war and that was the last anyone knew of him.

If anyone can help me anyway get me some answers it would greatly be appreciated!!

Dan

Sylvia C
05-05-19, 20:52
This is from the 1939 Register which later became the basis for the NHS in 1947, and was constantly updated by the NHS until ca 1991.


Address:- 23 Godhic Street, Cambridge

Arthur G Clark 18 May 1907 Gas Mark Assembler Married
Rose E R Warters (Clark) 28 Mar 1915 Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Arthur G Clark 09 Oct 1934 Under School Age Single
The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?
The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?


Gas Mark Assembler should be Gas Mask Assembler
The image for Rose looks as if there has been a mistransciption, it does look like Rose E. C rather than the Rose E R on here.

Rose married again at some point after 1939 to a Mr Warters (???Watters), because this was updated by hand in a different colour ink.

The 2 closed records are for persons not know to be dead.

Sylvia C
05-05-19, 20:58
Rose married William W Walters in Sept quarter 1946

You can find the record of the marriage on

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Sylvia C
05-05-19, 21:08
Was your grandfather Anthony H. B Clark, born June quarter 1937?


There might also have been another child, but I can't find a death or marriage for her on Freebmd ........

Female Clark, born December quarter 1935

Sorry, I have had to remove her name as she could still be alive.

mateer1987
05-05-19, 21:52
Yes my grandfather is Anthony Henry Brian Clark - born March 1937 Died November 2018

I have his mother and fathers marriage certificate - they married June 1934 in Cherston, Cambridgeshire.

Rose’s full name on the marriage certificate is Rose Emily Charlotte Saunders. To my knowledge she did remarry to william and my nan was lead to believe they had a child together. I know Rose was living in wales at the end of her life. died in 1973 according to ancestry.

In regards to Female Clark, may be possible because again there is a rumour of another sibling.


Was your grandfather Anthony H. B Clark, born June quarter 1937?


There might also have been another child, but I can't find a death or marriage for her on Freebmd ........

Female Clark, born December quarter 1935

Sorry, as above have had to remove her name until we find out if she is still alive or deceased.

Chrissie Smiff
06-05-19, 11:21
This looks like the death of Arthur -
Name - Arthur George Clark - Death Age 69 - Birth Date 9 Oct 1934 - Registration Date Apr 2004 - Registration district Birmingham - County Warwickshire - Reg Number P20B - District and Subdistrict 061/1P - Entry Number 230

Chrissie Smiff
06-05-19, 11:33
Rose appears to have died in 1980 in Haverfordwest - not 1973:question:

mateer1987
06-05-19, 12:07
Arthur George Clark that died in 2004 is my grandads brother,

you are right rose died in 1980

looking to try and find my great grandfather Arthur born 1906


Rose appears to have died in 1980 in Haverfordwest - not 1973:question:

Chrissie Smiff
06-05-19, 13:52
Sorry yes, I realise now that I was looking for the wrong Arthur. Can you tell us please, on the marriage cert of Arthur and Rose, what does it give as his father's name and occupation?

mateer1987
06-05-19, 15:37
fathers name is arthur george clark (28 years old)- married on 22 june 1934 to rose emily charlotte saunders (19 years old)

on certificate Arthur george clark occupation is shown as greengrocer

cbcarolyn
06-05-19, 16:31
So Arthur George Clark b 1907 was on 1939 reg and assume (unless divorced) that he died before Rose remarries in 1946.

He would have been 32 at start of the war, I assume he would have volunteered, that was too old for conscription, any idea what forces he joined?

mateer1987
06-05-19, 16:56
thats where im stuck because i know nothing more than he was in the war. i know nothing beyond that, always been a mystery


So Arthur George Clark b 1907 was on 1939 reg and assume (unless divorced) that he died before Rose remarries in 1946.

He would have been 32 at start of the war, I assume he would have volunteered, that was too old for conscription, any idea what forces he joined?

mateer1987
06-05-19, 16:59
Ive never even known who his parents are because i cant even find a birth record

Sylvia C
06-05-19, 17:50
So Arthur George Clark b 1907 was on 1939 reg and assume (unless divorced) that he died before Rose remarries in 1946.

He would have been 32 at start of the war, I assume he would have volunteered, that was too old for conscription, any idea what forces he joined?


Not necessarily ........... my uncle was born in 1895, fought through WW1, was injured, and was still liable for call-up in 1939/1940 until he managed to find a Store Keeper's job in a "restricted occupation" factory. That was apparently due to my father's help ............. he was working in a restricted occupation at the factory, heard they wanted a store keeper, told his brother and Harry got the job.

But he would have been around 45 at the time.

cbcarolyn
06-05-19, 18:10
fathers name is arthur george clark (28 years old)- married on 22 june 1934 to rose emily charlotte saunders (19 years old)

on certificate Arthur george clark occupation is shown as greengrocer

I have read and re read this - and not sure I understand - his fathers name is also Arthur George Clark a greengrocer? and the bridegroom Arthur G is 28 at marriage, so year of birth maybe 1906 and not 1907 as on 1939 register. any clues from the witnesses?

People get year wrong but not maybe month?

vera2013
06-05-19, 18:12
Didnt see you there Carolyn

fathers name is arthur george clark (28 years old)- married on 22 june 1934 to rose emily charlotte saunders (19 years old)

on certificate Arthur george clark occupation is shown as greengrocer

On the marriage cert for 1834, what was the occupation of Arthur G b 1907 and his address before marriage.

Please confirm the occupation of the father of Arthur G.

I can see a possible birth but the father of that Arthur G b 1907 was a Harness Maker

Vera

cbcarolyn
06-05-19, 18:16
Not necessarily ........... my uncle was born in 1895, fought through WW1, was injured, and was still liable for call-up in 1939/1940 until he managed to find a Store Keeper's job in a "restricted occupation" factory. That was apparently due to my father's help ............. he was working in a restricted occupation at the factory, heard they wanted a store keeper, told his brother and Harry got the job.

But he would have been around 45 at the time.

Interesting - I can't see any of my 'older' ancestors were conscripted, will ask Mum and Dad why their parents weren't called up.

I did have a hunt around, I know my Dad wasn't conscripted until 41 making him 19. he said he waited to be called and didn't volunteer! Pages I read said first conscripts were 20 - 22, but just found wiki page and that says different...so it must be true hee hee. Does seems as though initially it was youngsters called up and then more and more people were conscripted in 41 and 42

cbcarolyn
06-05-19, 18:18
Didnt see you there Carolyn


On the marriage cert for 1834, what was the occupation of Arthur G b 1907 and his address before marriage.

Please confirm the occupation of the father of Arthur G.

I can see a possible birth but the father of that Arthur G b 1907 was a Harness Maker

Vera
no problem, confirms my lack of understanding wasn't so silly. We should be able to find him in 1911 census.

cbcarolyn
06-05-19, 18:24
found this on Ancestry, no father so pretty sure not right. Grandfather came from Bedford so not miles away from Cambridge....
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2352/rg14_29126_0085_03?
and as GR has it this I think, so before May
CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE -
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in WHITBY Volume 09D Page 448

The saddler looks promising not far away in Peterborough - he could have changed profession

vera2013
06-05-19, 18:48
This is the Arthur G b 1907 son of the Arthur G in 1911

GRO
Arthur G Clarke, Reg June q Peterborough, mmn Spink

1911
Clarke, Arthur G b 1876 Outwell Saddler/ harness maker
Elizabeth b 1878 Peterborough
Arthur G aged 4 b Peterborough
Living 12 Crawthorne Rd, Peterborough

Cambridge Electoral Roll 1845
23 Gothic St, Cambridge
Rose E C Clark
Alice J Woolford

Vera

mateer1987
06-05-19, 18:58
Sadly the marriage certificate doesnt really help much - says he was a greengrocer at time of the wedding, section for father is blank and the witnesses are lily saunders and s j gentle? i think it says haha. it is confusing because there is 2 arthur g clarks - arthur g clark (1907 - father) and his son Arthur G Clark (born 1934). it is the 1907 im looking for but cannot for the life of me find anything. the only other info on marriage certificate is that they got married in chesterton. i would upload a cropped image just showing info for arthur but dont know how to do it or if it is even allowed

cbcarolyn
06-05-19, 19:02
someone on ancestry has his marriage as:
15 Aug 1933 • New Road Methodist Church,Peterborough, Northamptonshire, UK
Gladys Irene Lister
(1908–1978)
Not checked if she is correct.

mateer1987
06-05-19, 19:02
looking at it record it could possibly be although not sure how i could confirm it, dates seem about right. on marriage certificate it doesn't list his father either. makes me wonder what happened to his mother and father. very puzzling


found this on Ancestry, no father so pretty sure not right. Grandfather came from Bedford so not miles away from Cambridge....
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2352/rg14_29126_0085_03?
and as GR has it this I think, so before May
CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE -
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in WHITBY Volume 09D Page 448

The saddler looks promising not far away in Peterborough - he could have changed profession

mateer1987
06-05-19, 19:04
no on certificate marriage was 22 June 1934 in chesterton, cambridge. they had wedding in chesterton registry office

Olde Crone Holden
06-05-19, 19:10
No father's name on his marriage cert almost certainly means he was illegitimate, in my view.

OC

mateer1987
06-05-19, 19:11
possibly, just so confused by it all if im honest. baffles me that there isnt a trace of him


No father's name on his marriage cert almost certainly means he was illegitimate, in my view.

OC

vera2013
06-05-19, 19:18
Sadly the marriage certificate doesnt really help much - says he was a greengrocer at time of the wedding, section for father is blank and the witnesses are lily saunders and s j gentle? i think it says haha. it is confusing because there is 2 arthur g clarks - arthur g clark (1907 - father) and his son Arthur G Clark (born 1934). it is the 1907 im looking for but cannot for the life of me find anything. the only other info on marriage certificate is that they got married in chesterton. i would upload a cropped image just showing info for arthur but dont know how to do it or if it is even allowed

I must read this again. Sorry I think I' m the one that is geting it muddled.
Vera

cbcarolyn
06-05-19, 19:55
Sadly the marriage certificate doesnt really help much - says he was a greengrocer at time of the wedding, section for father is blank and the witnesses are lily saunders and s j gentle? i think it says haha. it is confusing because there is 2 arthur g clarks - arthur g clark (1907 - father) and his son Arthur G Clark (born 1934). it is the 1907 im looking for but cannot for the life of me find anything. the only other info on marriage certificate is that they got married in chesterton. i would upload a cropped image just showing info for arthur but dont know how to do it or if it is even allowed

sounds like he didn't know father then, maybe the Whitby one - but still not happy with month being incorrect, maybe he just disowned his father so said he didn't know.

Lily the brides relation - but Gentle not helping at all.

mateer1987
06-05-19, 19:59
again could be a possibility, there was a post earlier on in this thread that dates seemed about right - link on ancestry from 1911 census that could possibly match but lists him as grandson. so confused haha - so many possibilities


sounds like he didn't know father then, maybe the Whitby one - but still not happy with month being incorrect, maybe he just disowned his father so said he didn't know.

Lily the brides relation - but Gentle not helping at all.

cbcarolyn
06-05-19, 21:13
yes that was me that posted.

There are not many Arthur George Clark on GRO, the one in red is the only one that fits the birth date on 1939 register, assume that is the one Vera posted.

One in blue has no mother maiden name, so assume no father, year fits with marriage age.

CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE CLARK
GRO Reference: 1906 S Quarter in CHRISTCHURCH Volume 02B Page 654

CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE COSH
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in WEYMOUTH Volume 05A Page 273

CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE -
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in WHITBY Volume 09D Page 448

CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE BRADE
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 287

CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE PARSONS
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in LYMINGTON Volume 02B Page 614

CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE PERRY
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in SWAFFHAM Volume 04B Page 319

CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE SPINK
GRO Reference: 1907 J Quarter in PETERBOROUGH Volume 03B Page 202

CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE SADDLETON
GRO Reference: 1907 S Quarter in MILTON Volume 02A Page 1022

cbcarolyn
06-05-19, 21:36
Well I don't know if this works, but each Arthur George Clarke - I have tried to find the nearest place in 1939 to their birth and correct quarter, clearly relying on full names, so narrows down the Arthurs.....

CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE CLARK
GRO Reference: 1906 S Quarter in CHRISTCHURCH Volume 02B Page 654
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61596/tna_r39_2326_2326d_002?pid=2622501& (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61596/tna_r39_2326_2326d_002?pid=2622501&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DfVi8313%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3D1939ukregis ter%26gsfn%3DArthur%2520George%26gsln%3DClark%26gs ln_x%3DNP_NN_NS%26cp%3D11%26_83004003-n_xcl%3Df%26mssng%3DRose%2520Emily%2520Charlotte%2 6mssns%3DSaunders%26mscng%3DHazel%2520Joan%26mscng 1%3DArthur%2520G%26mscng2%3DMiriam%2520R%26mscng3% 3DAnthony%2520Henry%2520Brian%26mscng4%3DThelma%25 20G%26msbdy%3D1907%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D2%26msr pn__ftp%3Dcambridgeshire,%2520england,%2520united% 2520kingdom%26msrpn%3D5256%26ssrc%3Dpt_t82183502_p 382101974462%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3Dd54%26r edir%3Dfalse%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D1%26h%3D2622501%26recoff%3D%2 6ml_rpos%3D2&ssrc=pt_t82183502_p382101974462&treeid=82183502&personid=382101974462&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi8313&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true)

CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE COSH
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in WEYMOUTH Volume 05A Page 273

CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE -
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in WHITBY Volume 09D Page 448
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61596/tna_r39_3235_3235h_011?pid=19656057 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61596/tna_r39_3235_3235h_011?pid=19656057&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DfVi8316%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3D1939ukregis ter%26gsfn%3DArthur%2520George%26gsln%3DClark%26gs ln_x%3DNP_NN_NS%26cp%3D11%26_83004003-n_xcl%3Df%26mssng%3DRose%2520Emily%2520Charlotte%2 6mssns%3DSaunders%26mscng%3DHazel%2520Joan%26mscng 1%3DArthur%2520G%26mscng2%3DMiriam%2520R%26mscng3% 3DAnthony%2520Henry%2520Brian%26mscng4%3DThelma%25 20G%26msbdy%3D1907%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D2%26msr pn__ftp%3Dcambridgeshire,%2520england,%2520united% 2520kingdom%26msrpn%3D5256%26ssrc%3Dpt_t82183502_p 382101974462%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3Dd54%26r edir%3Dfalse%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D12%26h%3D19656057%26recoff%3D %26ml_rpos%3D13&ssrc=pt_t82183502_p382101974462&treeid=82183502&personid=382101974462&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi8316&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true)

CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE BRADE
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 287
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61596/tna_r39_3956_3956d_015?pid=24059217 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61596/tna_r39_3956_3956d_015?pid=24059217&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DfVi8314%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3D1939ukregis ter%26gsfn%3DArthur%2520George%26gsln%3DClark%26gs ln_x%3DNP_NN_NS%26cp%3D11%26_83004003-n_xcl%3Df%26mssng%3DRose%2520Emily%2520Charlotte%2 6mssns%3DSaunders%26mscng%3DHazel%2520Joan%26mscng 1%3DArthur%2520G%26mscng2%3DMiriam%2520R%26mscng3% 3DAnthony%2520Henry%2520Brian%26mscng4%3DThelma%25 20G%26msbdy%3D1907%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D2%26msr pn__ftp%3Dcambridgeshire,%2520england,%2520united% 2520kingdom%26msrpn%3D5256%26ssrc%3Dpt_t82183502_p 382101974462%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3Dd54%26r edir%3Dfalse%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D6%26h%3D24059217%26recoff%3D% 26ml_rpos%3D7&ssrc=pt_t82183502_p382101974462&treeid=82183502&personid=382101974462&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi8314&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true)

CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE PARSONS
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in LYMINGTON Volume 02B Page 614

CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE PERRY
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in SWAFFHAM Volume 04B Page 319
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61596/TNA_R39_6302_6302D_003?pid=37895397 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61596/TNA_R39_6302_6302D_003?pid=37895397&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26db%3D1939ukregister%26gsfn%3DA rthur%2BGeorge%26gsln%3DClark%26gsln_x%3DNP_NN_NS% 26cp%3D11%26_83004003-n_xcl%3Df%26mssng%3DRose%2BEmily%2BCharlotte%26mss ns%3DSaunders%26mscng%3DHazel%2BJoan%26mscng1%3DAr thur%2BG%26mscng2%3DMiriam%2BR%26mscng3%3DAnthony% 2BHenry%2BBrian%26mscng4%3DThelma%2BG%26msbdy%3D19 07%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D2%26msrpn__ftp%3Dcambri dgeshire%252c%2Bengland%252c%2Bunited%2Bkingdom%26 msrpn%3D5256%26ssrc%3Dpt_t82183502_p382101974462%2 6new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3Dd54%26redir%3Dfalse%2 6gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D2%26h%3D37895397%26recoff%3D% 26ml_rpos%3D3%26hovR%3D1&ssrc=pt_t82183502_p382101974462&treeid=82183502&personid=382101974462&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true)

CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE SPINK
GRO Reference: 1907 J Quarter in PETERBOROUGH Volume 03B Page 202

CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE SADDLETON
GRO Reference: 1907 S Quarter in MILTON Volume 02A Page 1022
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61596/TNA_R39_1790_1790J_008?pid=16818893 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61596/TNA_R39_1790_1790J_008?pid=16818893&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DfVi8315%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3D1939ukregis ter%26gsfn%3DArthur%2520George%26gsln%3DClark%26gs ln_x%3DNP_NN_NS%26cp%3D11%26_83004003-n_xcl%3Df%26mssng%3DRose%2520Emily%2520Charlotte%2 6mssns%3DSaunders%26mscng%3DHazel%2520Joan%26mscng 1%3DArthur%2520G%26mscng2%3DMiriam%2520R%26mscng3% 3DAnthony%2520Henry%2520Brian%26mscng4%3DThelma%25 20G%26msbdy%3D1907%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D2%26msr pn__ftp%3Dcambridgeshire,%2520england,%2520united% 2520kingdom%26msrpn%3D5256%26ssrc%3Dpt_t82183502_p 382101974462%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3Dd54%26r edir%3Dfalse%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D11%26h%3D16818893%26recoff%3D %26ml_rpos%3D12&ssrc=pt_t82183502_p382101974462&treeid=82183502&personid=382101974462&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi8315&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true)

cbcarolyn
06-05-19, 21:47
or swaffham one could be peterborough one

mateer1987
06-05-19, 21:56
Ok, how can i determine which one is my great grandfather? looking at the links that have been sent the peterborough one feels most likely to be him however I am really unsure

mateer1987
06-05-19, 22:03
I apologise all, I was just looking back through info I had been given and I have a question mark by it in my notes but I vaguely remember my grandfathers sister saying something about her grandfather being called William Clark? Has anybody come across that name anywhere whilst looking for Arthur? I apologise again its a small piece of info that I missed. Again never been able to prove it to be true or not. Last thing I want is to updset anyone on here. Your help is greatly greatly appreciated!!

Olde Crone Holden
06-05-19, 22:11
The Clark/Spink birth was inside marriage though, so for him not to put his father's name on his marriage cert indicates that he had washed his hands of his father.

Scenario - Mr Clark senior abandons his wife (the former Miss Spink) and children at some point, making Arthur George (1907) so bitter that he renounces his father for ever! I am toying with another possibility but too tired to follow it through tonight!

OC

cbcarolyn
06-05-19, 22:19
Not seen a William, if he really didn't have a father, it could be a William was a stepfather, and had brought him up?

The list from GRO will be the same regardless of fathers name.

mateer1987
06-05-19, 22:30
Have just come across a christening record in Necton, Norfolk - christening date 07 April 1907 - Parents William Clark and Sarah. Hmmm I wonder? :question: found it on familysearch.org - never used site before

cbcarolyn
06-05-19, 22:55
that should be the one in Swaffham, and is a likely candidate. but dob on 1939 reg wrong, but sure that is plausible.

it is on ancestry

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61042/4033239_01019?pid=2165039 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61042/4033239_01019?pid=2165039&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D61042%26h%3D2165039%26t id%3D82183502%26pid%3D382101974462%26usePUB%3Dtrue %26_phsrc%3DfVi8349%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=82183502&personid=382101974462&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi8349&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true)

cbcarolyn
06-05-19, 23:09
says dob jan 9th

here is a death record for that dob:
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=7579&h=3514610&tid=82183502&pid=382101974462&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi8363&_phstart=successSource

and on 1939 register for that dob
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/61596/TNA_R39_6302_6302D_003?pid=37895397&

so can discount that one, as you have 1939 reg with rose and young arthur

cbcarolyn
06-05-19, 23:13
Ok, how can i determine which one is my great grandfather? looking at the links that have been sent the peterborough one feels most likely to be him however I am really unsure

I think you can only go through each of the candidates and find their records, and hopefully eliminate them. so if you can link birth to the 1939 reg entry you know it isn't them.

vera2013
06-05-19, 23:26
Not leading anwhere yet

I was following the Alice J Woolford living with Rose Clarke in Gothic Street, Cambridge in 1945/44 FMP electoral roll
I can see her in Bournmouth, in the 1939, living/married to William H Clarke b 1900.
Additional names Gaff and Woolford.
Alice J Gaff b Aylsham 1907 mmn Clark.
Alice J Gaff marries Kenneth Woolford Cambridge 1843. Continue to live in Cambridge.
William H Clarke b 1900 was an RAF Reservist in 1939
Cant see a Gaff/Clarke marriage

Vera

bcbrit
07-05-19, 00:22
Hi Dan,

1 - Have you got the marriage certificate of Rose Clark nee Saunders to William Walters ? With a bit of luck it will may say widow or divorced. If she is a widow it narrows the window down for a death for her first husband.

2 - Have you looked at the Commonwealth Graves site? He may have died in the war either in the army etc or as a civilian.

3 - You say that you know your Grandfather and siblings were in the care of Dr Barnados. You may be able to get his records, and this may tell you why they were there. It may give you some clues to what happened to their father.

4 - I see that on the 1939 his date of birth is given as 18 May 1907. Interestingly there is an Arthur George Clark born 18 May 1908 and died 1982 Bromley London.

My mother was evacuated from London to Cambridge in WW2.

bcbrit

Katarzyna
07-05-19, 08:41
Not leading anwhere yet

I was following the Alice J Woolford living with Rose Clarke in Gothic Street, Cambridge in 1945/44 FMP electoral roll
I can see her in Bournmouth, in the 1939, living/married to William H Clarke b 1900.
Additional names Gaff and Woolford.
Alice J Gaff b Aylsham 1907 mmn Clark.
Alice J Gaff marries Kenneth Woolford Cambridge 1843. Continue to live in Cambridge.
William H Clarke b 1900 was an RAF Reservist in 1939
Cant see a Gaff/Clarke marriage

Vera

Interesting Vera. Possible birth William H Clark from the 1939 Reg born June qtr 1900

CLARK, WILLIAM HENRY mmn PICKERING
GRO Reference: 1900 J Quarter in WHITBY Volume 09D Page 481

cbcarolyn
07-05-19, 09:10
I have been trying to trace
CLARK, ARTHUR GEORGE SPINK
GRO Reference: 1907 J Quarter in PETERBOROUGH Volume 03B Page 202

see if I could find a christening record that states birth date to match the 1939 register, not had any luck yet.

Chrissie Smiff
07-05-19, 09:22
I apologise all, I was just looking back through info I had been given and I have a question mark by it in my notes but I vaguely remember my grandfathers sister saying something about her grandfather being called William Clark? Has anybody come across that name anywhere whilst looking for Arthur? I apologise again its a small piece of info that I missed. Again never been able to prove it to be true or not. Last thing I want is to updset anyone on here. Your help is greatly greatly appreciated!!

Is your Grandfather's sister deceased and if so could you tell us her name and age please?

mateer1987
07-05-19, 09:37
my grandfathers sister is Thelma Clark, she passed away last year she was 79 when she passed. her married name was canham. There is also another sister Hazel Clark who was born may 1933 died april 1995 - married name king



Is your Grandfather's sister deceased and if so could you tell us her name and age please?

mateer1987
07-05-19, 09:39
Someone in earlier post also found what could possibly be another sister an M Clark born 1935. on freebmd shows mothers maiden name as saunders. but i really know. nothing of her as ive not heard of her until then. i would post full name but have been informed i cant as unable to confirm whether she is still alive or not

mateer1987
07-05-19, 09:46
This william would only be 5 maybe 6 years old at the time of Arthurs (b: 1906) birth? be rather young would t it?


Interesting Vera. Possible birth William H Clark from the 1939 Reg born June qtr 1900

CLARK, WILLIAM HENRY mmn PICKERING
GRO Reference: 1900 J Quarter in WHITBY Volume 09D Page 481

Chrissie Smiff
07-05-19, 09:56
my grandfathers sister is Thelma Clark, she passed away last year she was 79 when she passed. her married name was canham. There is also another sister Hazel Clark who was born may 1933 died april 1995 - married name king

Sorry - it's me getting confused again. I was thinking you knew the name of your Gt.Grandfather's sister. We already know the names of your grandfather's siblings of course:o

Olde Crone Holden
07-05-19, 10:17
Arthur Clark married Elizabeth Spink JQ 1901 Peterborough 3b 577

I have checked Clark(e)/Spink births. There are quite a few but only ONE in the right area and that is

Arthur George Clark JQ 1907 Peterborough 3b 202.

I think it is very suspicious that this couple had only one child and I am wondering if they had parted company before Arthur was born.

Can anyone see this family in 1911 please?

OC

Katarzyna
07-05-19, 10:23
This is it OC.

Name: Arthur George Clarke
Age in 1911: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1907
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Peterborough, Northamptonshire
Civil Parish: Peterborough
Search Photos: Search for 'Peterborough' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Northamptonshire
Country: England
Street address: 12 Crawthorne Road Peterborough
Registration district: Peterborough
Registration District Number: 170
Sub-registration district: Peterborough
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Household schedule number: 148
Piece: 8680
Household Members:
Name Age
Arthur Clarke 35 Birth 1876 Outwell, Norfolk
Elizabeth Clarke 38 Birth 1873 Peterborough
Arthur George Clarke 4
Eleanor Jane Whaley 23

Olde Crone Holden
07-05-19, 10:32
Ooh, thankyou Kat!

Knocks my theory out of the water, BUT...I think it would be worth buying the certificate for the date of birth alone to see if it matches with the death bcbrit found.

I agree with bcbrit that it would be worth getting the Barnados records.

OC

Olde Crone Holden
07-05-19, 11:02
Oh durh! Apologies to both Kat and Vera, this info has already been posted by Vera!

I still think it's worth getting that birth cert though, for elimination purposes if nothing else because this is a very good contender.

OC

mateer1987
07-05-19, 11:34
I have come over to my grandmothers and looked at my grandfathers birth certificate. On it his fathers occupation is listed as fish merchant. looks like he many occupations throughout his life lol.

cbcarolyn
07-05-19, 11:35
this is the census
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2352/rg14_08680_0295_03/52227502 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2352/rg14_08680_0295_03/52227502?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/82183502/person/382101974462/facts/citation/1062142123686/edit/record)

and I think this maybe the older Arthur in 1939 - but with a Jane - right occupation

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61596/tna_r39_6290_6290f_001/45454635 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61596/tna_r39_6290_6290f_001/45454635?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/82183502/person/382102053155/facts/citation/1062142154484/edit/record)

possible death for elizabeth
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7579/ons_d19211az-0174/16484426 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7579/ons_d19211az-0174/16484426?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/82183502/person/382102053150/facts/citation/1062142232819/edit/record)

cbcarolyn
07-05-19, 11:36
I have come over to my grandmothers and looked at my grandfathers birth certificate. On it his fathers occupation is listed as fish merchant. looks like he many occupations throughout his life lol.

so this is the younger born 1907, still no occupation for elder? or any documents?

you could look through some directories and you might find a bit about your grandfather - he maybe had a high street shop - might have advertised in local papers etc.

cbcarolyn
07-05-19, 11:40
NB this Arthur is quite findable on the census etc - but need something to link him. I think birth cert is only way - to get dob if it is same as 1939 reg, then must be safe to assume he is your man.

mateer1987
07-05-19, 11:53
this is my great grandfather arthur born 1906/7. so makes this my grandads father. This is the elusive relative that i cannot find. not to be confused with the younger arthur born 1934 - my grandads brother.


so this is the younger born 1907, still no occupation for elder? or any documents?

you could look through some directories and you might find a bit about your grandfather - he maybe had a high street shop - might have advertised in local papers etc.

Chrissie Smiff
07-05-19, 12:02
Can everyone ignore this please. I have been working on something but have to go, so parking it here for later before I lose it.

Marriages Mar 1905 -Clarke Mary Ann Aylsham 4b 123
GAFF Thomas William Aylsham 4b 123

cbcarolyn
07-05-19, 18:43
just because I always like to look at maps and places people lived - here is a picture of gothic street
20095

Olde Crone Holden
07-05-19, 22:34
Just to recap, then.....

If I were you, I would purchase the 1907 birth certificate. If this turns out to be correct, then your next purchase would be the 1982 death certificate, which would give you information about his later life, such as his address, occupation and the name of the informant.

You can buy the birth certificate in pdf form for £7.

teasie
07-05-19, 23:43
I suspect that the Arthur George Clark b Peterborough Apr-Jun 1907, mmn Spink, may be the one who married Gladys Irene Lister in 1933.

The 1939 shows them still in Peterborough, with Arthur's DoB as 1 Apr 1907. He died in Bournemouth in 1976.

Personally I'd be more inclined to obtain the Barnado's file. It will cost more, but should hopefully give you more information too.

Olde Crone Holden
08-05-19, 09:27
Or you could get the 1982 death certificate and hopefully work backwards from that. The Barnados file will probably only tell you that their father had either vanished or that the parents had divorced.

Another way is to order the birth certificate but specify the date of birth. If the date of birth is not what you ask for, they will refund your money minus a £3 search fee.

OC

cbcarolyn
08-05-19, 10:54
Or you could get the 1982 death certificate and hopefully work backwards from that. The Barnados file will probably only tell you that their father had either vanished or that the parents had divorced.

Another way is to order the birth certificate but specify the date of birth. If the date of birth is not what you ask for, they will refund your money minus a £3 search fee.

OC
That is useful to know about the DOB. Although there could be a query on year of birth as marriage cert doesn't tie in with 1939 reg I think it is one year different. May birthday, June wedding.

I looked at Barnardo's website, they charge quite a bit too. I did wonder what they would offer.

cbcarolyn
08-05-19, 11:08
wonder why we can't pin down birth cert on GRO? name change? maybe just swapped his names around?

Olde Crone Holden
08-05-19, 11:27
Well, the Barnados file might be quite interesting to have, but it will basically only cover the reason for the children's admission, it won't have much information about Arthur George 1907, so I would put that at the bottom of the "must have" pile as far as searching for AG1907 goes. Not sure who can apply, next of kin I expect.

Not sure what you mean about the date of birth on the marriage cert? Marriage certs don't have dates of birth on them. Did you mean the death cert which is a year out but same day and month? Seems vanishingly unlikely there would be two AG Clarkes born on the same day one year apart.

OC

mateer1987
08-05-19, 15:17
I can't help but wonder if the date of birth is wrong on the 1939 record. going by the marriage certificate I have Arthur is listed aged 28, if him and rose married in the 1934 working backwards makes him born in 1906 unless my maths is off.

its madness that he is so hard to find.

cbcarolyn
08-05-19, 19:04
Well, the Barnados file might be quite interesting to have, but it will basically only cover the reason for the children's admission, it won't have much information about Arthur George 1907, so I would put that at the bottom of the "must have" pile as far as searching for AG1907 goes. Not sure who can apply, next of kin I expect.

Not sure what you mean about the date of birth on the marriage cert? Marriage certs don't have dates of birth on them. Did you mean the death cert which is a year out but same day and month? Seems vanishingly unlikely there would be two AG Clarkes born on the same day one year apart.

OC

re marriage - 28 in June 1934 Must mean born between 23 June 1905 and 21 June 1906 - see quote below


fathers name is arthur george clark (28 years old)- married on 22 june 1934 to rose emily charlotte saunders (19 years old)

on certificate Arthur george clark occupation is shown as greengrocer

link to Barnardos https://www.barnardos.org.uk/former-barnardos-children

cbcarolyn
08-05-19, 19:17
I suspect that the Arthur George Clark b Peterborough Apr-Jun 1907, mmn Spink, may be the one who married Gladys Irene Lister in 1933.

The 1939 shows them still in Peterborough, with Arthur's DoB as 1 Apr 1907. He died in Bournemouth in 1976.

I forgot I had posted that ages back, I meant to go and check to see if it was correct.

vera2013
08-05-19, 21:58
Mateer

Any info on Arthur George's military career?
Nothing on CWG.
Can see that the Cambridge Roll of Honour has an Arthur G listed but info needed.

Vera

vera2013
08-05-19, 22:17
I can't help but wonder if the date of birth is wrong on the 1939 record. going by the marriage certificate I have Arthur is listed aged 28, if him and rose married in the 1934 working backwards makes him born in 1906 unless my maths is off.

its madness that he is so hard to find.

For elimination
There is an Arthur George Clarke b Sep q 1906 Christchurch. Unfortunately. Looks very like him in 1939.

He is a twin b to Edith May Clark who married a Clark ie John Clark 1901 Christchurch. John d Christchurch 1908.

1911 Edith May, 32, Widow living with
Arthur George and Lillian May aged 4 in Christchurch

1939 Edith May Widow b 9/11/1879 working as a Cook

1939
Arthur George Clark b 24/97/06 Manager Newsagent
Alice Mary Clark (nee Jones) b 09/08/06
John Arthur Clark 29/10/31
109 Bargates, Christchurch

Vera

cbcarolyn
08-05-19, 22:38
I have been looking at the list from GRO along with a couple of clark (e) and they all seem to be accounted for. Quite a few of them lived to a ripe old age too.