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Francis SPENCER and Hannah LINTON

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  • #21
    You do have to remember that many of the records on FMP are obtained from FamilySearch ........ they are not new transcriptions of the records.


    Similarly, the records on ancestry.

    So looking at those 2 sites is only repeating the records that are on FamilySearch, not confirming that they are correct by another examination of the original.
    Last edited by Sylvia C; 02-06-17, 18:37.
    My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

    Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

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    • #22
      These Marriages have been transcribed from Parish records by FreeReg, so another source. Note: There are three St Mary churches - St Mary, St Mary Street and St Mary the Virgin. I cannot see a baptism but between 1710 - 1739 only 73 baptisms have been transcribed.

      County Monmouthshire
      Place Monmouth
      Church name St Mary the Virgin
      Register type Parish Register
      Register entry number
      Marriage date 04 Aug 1735
      Groom forename James
      Groom surname JONES
      Groom parish Monmouth
      Groom occupation
      Bride forename Ann
      Bride surname MORGAN
      Bride parish Monmouth

      County Monmouthshire
      Place Monmouth
      Church name St Mary the Virgin
      Register type Parish Register
      Register entry number
      Marriage date 21 Apr 1760
      Groom forename John
      Groom surname SPENCER
      Groom parish Monmouth
      Groom occupation
      Bride forename Mary
      Bride surname JONES
      Bride parish Monmouth
      Register note License
      Kat

      My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by Peter46 View Post

        I have found proof online that John and Mary were married on 21 April 1760 in the town of Monmouth in Monmouthshire, South Wales.

        Peter
        Here is the marriage image from FMP:
        Create an account for free with Findmypast to discover your family history and build a family tree. Search birth records, census data, death records and more.


        It's on the left-hand page and confirms that they married by Licence.

        There is some good additional information there.
        Last edited by Elizabeth Herts; 02-06-17, 19:54.
        Elizabeth
        Research Interests:
        England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
        Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

        Comment


        • #24
          Thank you Elizabeth I found the same record on FMP, it proves that John Spencer and Mary Jones were married in 1760.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Peter46 View Post
            Thank you Elizabeth I found the same record on FMP, it proves that John Spencer and Mary Jones were married in 1760.
            At the risk of being pedantic, it proves that A John Spencer and A Mary Jones were married in that place on that date. It doesn't automatically mean that therefore this has to be your couple . Mary Jones would have been a very common name in Wales and were it my tree, I would want to 1) investigate what happened in the years between this marriage and the birth of the first known child and also 2) to investigate other PR possibilities which are NOT yet online.

            Jay
            Janet in Yorkshire



            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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            • #26
              I agree, Janet. More supporting evidence is required.
              Elizabeth
              Research Interests:
              England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
              Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

              Comment


              • #27
                I've been trying, without any success, to find out where the marriage licences for Monmouth might be. (My knowledge of the history of that border region is poor - would Monmouthshire have been in England or Wales in the 1760's - 1780's ?)
                I was hoping that a sighting of the marriage licence/bond could reveal additional information such as occupation, usual abode, name of bondsman etc, which might help with the identity of the groom.

                Peter, could you confirm whether the information about the John Spencer/Mary Jones marriage was entered by their child James, or one of his descendants? I'm assuming no details of the marriage were recorded in the bible? Do the entries give place and date of baptism for James's children?

                Jay
                Janet in Yorkshire



                Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                Comment


                • #28
                  It appears they exist:
                  "Microfilm of original records at the National Library, Aberystwyth."

                  Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.

                  Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


                  Ugh - beginning in 1762, the images are online - too late for your marriage.

                  Also, note that there are other bond/allegations in the catalog:
                  Last edited by PhotoFamily; 03-06-17, 15:26.

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                  • #29
                    Seems the film is only available at a LDS centre:(

                    Jay
                    Janet in Yorkshire



                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                    • #30
                      Jay

                      Unfortunately, films are no longer available at LDS centres. They withdrew that facility last year. _(I think)

                      OC

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Thanks OC - that would be why it came up with a map of Salt Lake City showing the site of the Temple then. ;D

                        Jay
                        Janet in Yorkshire



                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
                          Seems the film is only available at a LDS centre
                          and presumably at National Library, Aberystwyth - but I can't figure out their catalog :(

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            As far as I know all records for the historic county of Monmouthshire are held at the Gwent Records Office in Ebbw Vale. There is no mention in my family bible about the John Spencer/Mary Jones marriage. I found that information myself. The bible only lists dates of birth not dates of baptism. According to Gwent Records Office James was married in Machen on 1 June 1805 to Martha Jones. I have only been able to find the date/place of baptism for the youngest of their 4 children. William (my 2nd great grandfather) who was baptised on 3 December 1815 in Bassaleg. As far as I am aware the other children were all born in Machen.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              FMP have got transcriptions for Monmouthshire marriages going back as far as 1560. Searching the database for a Spencer to a Jones Marriage produces only one, the one in 1760 which has already been mentioned. On Family Search the marriage is only listed under BTs and only gives the year 1760.

                              On FMP Monmouthshire baptisms go back as early as 1552. A search for Spencer baptisms between 1760 and 1770 produces only 13 of those only 2 were children of John and Mary. Sarah baptised at Monmouth St Mary on 18 Oct 1868 and Adam baptised at Monmouth St Mary on 9 Feb 1770. Both are mentioned in my family bible.

                              I agree that it is strange that my John and Mary did not start producing children until after they had been married for some 8 years. A search on FMP for Spencer burials in Monmouthshire between 1760 and 1768 produces only 11. Only one of those was at Monmouth St Mary. Diana Spencer who was buried on 23 Jan 1763 there is a note in the register that she was Kane’s sister. I can find no baptism for a Diana Spencer between 1760 and 1763. I have however found a marriage at Monmouth St Mary on 30 Aug 1746 between Godfrey Spencer (not my relation) and Diana née Kane.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Have you tried looking at Spencer wills? There are a few on the National Library of Wales website:

                                Elizabeth
                                Research Interests:
                                England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Peter, may I ask what documentation you have for knowing 1) that the mother of your ancestor James Spencer was named Mary Jones and 2) that Jones was her birth surname? Obviously we are dealing in the time frame before civil registration and certificates and also in an era when details in parish registers was often scanty.
                                  When I first began researching 30+ years ago, I very quickly got back to an ancestor who was the son of John C & his wife Mary Oman; I found a transcription of their marriage too. What I couldn't find anywhere was the baptism/origins of Mary Oman. (This was years before internet research was possible.) When I eventually got to the relevant county record office and looked at the original marriage register, I discovered that John C had indeed married Mary Oman, but Mary had been a widow - so, I could have searched for the rest of my life and I never would have found the baptism of Mary Oman, who technically never existed as a child. Once I had that vital bit of information, I was able to use the PR for the same village to find her previous marriage, the death of Mr Oman, the birth of a posthumous son, Mary's infant baptism entry, the marriage of her parents and so on.

                                  Jay
                                  Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 04-06-17, 14:49.
                                  Janet in Yorkshire



                                  Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                                  • #37
                                    The other point which strikes me - marrying by licence suggests that one or other was not of the parish, or that there was some reason they did not want banns called. Either could have been widowed or perhaps they were strong nonconformists. Eight years of marriage and no recorded children suggests they either lived somewhere else for eight years, or you have the wrong couple OR there is a serious gap in the records.

                                    Do you know what occupation John had?

                                    OC

                                    OC

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                                    • #38
                                      I looked at Adam and Sarah's baptism and he is a forgeman
                                      Elaine

                                      Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                      http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                      http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

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                                      • #39
                                        So, not gentry then. Makes it a bit odd that they married by licence.

                                        OC

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Have I got the right family? Mary dies 1803 and John the year after, parish registers say forge on both death entries; birth dates tie in with death age and there is this will

                                          The official archive of the UK government. Our vision is to lead and transform information management, guarantee the survival of today's information for tomorrow and bring history to life for everyone.


                                          Reference: LL/1804/80
                                          Title: John Spencer
                                          Description: Will.
                                          Diocese: Llandaf
                                          Parish: Machen
                                          Township: Machen Forge
                                          County: Monmouthshire
                                          Date: 1804

                                          Found it after seeing this death

                                          Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


                                          Name Adam Spencer
                                          Event Type Burial
                                          Event Date 21 Jan 1849
                                          Event Place Machen, Monmouthshire, Wales
                                          Age 80
                                          Birth Year (Estimated) 1769
                                          Last edited by Elaine; 04-06-17, 22:24.
                                          Elaine

                                          Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                          http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                          http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                          Comment

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