Joseph Charles Fricker

[Olde Crone Holden]

Oh, interesting. The link in #439 is to an article by one Steve Woodbridge. One of the Evans family married a Woodbridge, I wonder if it's just coincidence.

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

Post #298 on this thred - you say that dna evidence shows that William Fricker and Telford Charles Field were first cousins but I wonder if the dna results have been correctly interpreted?

First cousins share one pair of grandparents - in this case, Joshua Field 1787-1863 and his wife Matilda Evans 1796-1874. They had four sons and one daughter, one of whom must be William's father/parent and one of whom must be Telford Charles' parent.

Matilda the daughter can be discounted - she was far too old to have given birth in 1898, never mind any other considerations!
Hamilton died in 1877, Telford (father of Telford Charles) died in 1889.

So we are left with just two men as putative fathers - Joshua Field 1828-1904 and Sidney, 1832-1916. Both these men seem far too old to be getting a girl into trouble in 1897, but I suppose it is possible the mother wasn't actually a young girl.

The dna evidence would appear to rule out Joshua Leslie on the grounds that he would be William's 1st cousin, not his father., or, by traditional genealogical evidence would be William's half brother!

I hope that makes sense.

OC

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Post #298 on this thred - you say that dna evidence shows that William Fricker and Telford Charles Field were first cousins but I wonder if the dna results have been correctly interpreted?

First cousins share one pair of grandparents - in this case, Joshua Field 1787-1863 and his wife Matilda Evans 1796-1874. They had four sons and one daughter, one of whom must be William's father/parent and one of whom must be Telford Charles' parent.

Matilda the daughter can be discounted - she was far too old to have given birth in 1898, never mind any other considerations!
Hamilton died in 1877, Telford (father of Telford Charles) died in 1889.

So we are left with just two men as putative fathers - Joshua Field 1828-1904 and Sidney, 1832-1916. Both these men seem far too old to be getting a girl into trouble in 1897, but I suppose it is possible the mother wasn't actually a young girl.

The dna evidence would appear to rule out Joshua Leslie on the grounds that he would be William's 1st cousin, not his father., or, by traditional genealogical evidence would be William's half brother!

I hope that makes sense.

OC

What I have been told by my half-cousin, not having actually seen what was sent to her, is that the grandchild (a daughter according to the family tree) of Telford Charles? FIELD (the son, not the father) is my 3rd cousin (and also 3rd cousin to my half-cousin). My half-cousin tells me that there could be a generation removed involved. and not to take the 3rd cousin relationship so literally as there could be a generation removed. I am not an expert on autosomal DNA test results.

Yes, it has occured to me that Joshua II or his brother Sidney could have fathered my grandfather in the summer of 1897. Because it was summer-time, my hunch is that the conception may have taken place on the Isle of Wight where the annual Cowes Regatta (yacht race) took place in mid- to late July. I wish I could find out where anyone in the FIELD family may have had a second home near Cowes, IOW.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Telford lived in Hound and Telford Charles was born in South Stoneham.

I meant to say - the Evans family were terribly well conneected, haha, and appear to be a cadet branch of the Evans-Freke family of Ireland. Loads about them on the internet.

OC

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Telford lived in Hound and Telford Charles was born in South Stoneham.

I meant to say - the Evans family were terribly well conneected, haha, and appear to be a cadet branch of the Evans-Freke family of Ireland. Loads about them on the internet.

OC

I will have to look into the Evans-Freke famliy of Ireland. Feel free to send any interesting links.

I am desperately seeking any photos of any of the 13 children of Joshua FIELD II (d. 1904) to see if there are any family resemblances. I am also interested in knowing where any IOW properties associated with the sons of the same FIELD family are to be found.

Telford Charles FIELD and Isabel NEWMAN were both born in South Stoneham. I wonder if this has anything to do with how she was chosen to be the foster mother to William. One thing that bothers me is I don't know if my grandfather was ever baptized, and if so by what name. I wouldn't have a clue where to look.

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Telford lived in Hound and Telford Charles was born in South Stoneham.

I meant to say - the Evans family were terribly well conneected, haha, and appear to be a cadet branch of the Evans-Freke family of Ireland. Loads about them on the internet.

OC

I found the coat of arms and other information. The EVANS famly came from Wales, originally.

http://www.europeanheraldry.org/unit...nsevans-freke/ Love those wolf heads!

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Telford lived in Hound and Telford Charles was born in South Stoneham.

I meant to say - the Evans family were terribly well conneected, haha, and appear to be a cadet branch of the Evans-Freke family of Ireland. Loads about them on the internet.

OC

Here's more: It shows how the WATSON brothers that the FIELD sisters married were likely to be connected to the EVANS-FREKE peerage famliy:

http://www.thepeerage.com/p20228.htm#i202277 Nice painting of Susan WATSON, however, I can't say that she looks like any of us.

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Post #298 on this thred - you say that dna evidence shows that William Fricker and Telford Charles Field were first cousins but I wonder if the dna results have been correctly interpreted?

First cousins share one pair of grandparents - in this case, Joshua Field 1787-1863 and his wife Matilda Evans 1796-1874. They had four sons and one daughter, one of whom must be William's father/parent and one of whom must be Telford Charles' parent.

The dna evidence would appear to rule out Joshua Leslie on the grounds that he would be William's 1st cousin, not his father., or, by traditional genealogical evidence would be William's half brot

OC

First of all, as I stated before, a DNA test does not tell you the exact degree of cousinship, if this is a word. My own DNA results are in and it tells me that the person I know to be my half-cousin, sharing William as our grandfather, is my 2nd cousin.

The results also tell me that someone whose last name is Leslie is a 2nd or 3rd cousin (or could be a 2nd cousin once removed) and I am puzzled by this. I noted that the man that I believe (but can not prove) is my great-grandfather is Joshua Leslie Field. Since othr names of siblings seem to have been taken from the Evans family tree (Freke, for example), then a Leslie famliy might connect with the Evans-Freke peerage family not too many generations back. Having a bit of blue blood in my ancestry is very interesting, but does not make me better than anyone else. The illegitimacy of my grandfather guarantees that he would never be considered part of such a family in any case. So now I am looking for a Leslie connection to the Evans side of the Field family tree which seems to have been added to, thanks to Kat.

No one named Saunders showed up in my results. There are far too many names of 3rd and 4th cousins to list that could possibly be related to William's mother. A suprising number of German names showed up, and some Scottish names and another name, Kniffen, that sounds Scandanavian. The name Jones showed up but since the Evans name came from Wales, the person named Jones, a well known Welsh name, could be related to them. These relationships are too distant to be really useful for genelogical research. Only the more closely related Leslie name shows some promise

[Olde Crone Holden]

Oh dear, disappointing results for you. Perhaps something will turn up in future.

Yes, there is a Leslie connection but I haven't so far entered it on the tree as it is on the known side and rather distant. I seemed to be going ever more sideways so decided to stop entering names just for the sake of it - it was me who put the Evans information on the tree. I have loads more I haven't entered because your search is for William's mother and therefore his father.

Let us know what response you get from the Leslie match.

OC

[kylejustin]

These further back links with cousins could, if solvable, pinpoint certain ancestors, which in turn may help you with closer matches. Ie proving descent from a certain cousin.

Don't ignore people who don't match dna with your cousin either. It's possible for other matches to come from the same family and not all share dna with each other.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Kyle

I agree with what you say, but the quickest way/ easiest way is to contact the Leslie connection to see where the connection is. It may not be on William's side of the tree. Rather than doing a lot of pointless research in the dark, so to speak. As we really don't know what surname we are looking for, yes, all the other names will have to be investigated at some point. Hopefully the Leslie connection will be a shortcut!

OC

[Katarzyna]

FreeBMD has these:
10 possible marriages of an Evans to a Leslie between 1837 - 1910 (you would need to work out the proper partners) That is excluding marriages where an Evans and a Leslie are shown as the same sex in the group.
There are 7 definite marriages between 1925 and 1965 and more after this date.

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FreeBMD has these:
10 possible marriages of an Evans to a Leslie between 1837 - 1910 (you would need to work out the proper partners) That is excluding marriages where an Evans and a Leslie are shown as the same sex in the group.
There are 7 definite marriages between 1925 and 1965 and more after this date.

Thanks Kat! Sorry to get you and OC so busy with the LESLIE name as it turns out that this person named Leslie is a half-cousin once removed and the surname comes from someone not related to me at all! I was confused by the name that I did not recognize. It is purely coincidental that Leslie the surname is the same as Leslie the middle name of Joshua Field III. At least that mystery was soon solved.

The only thing noteworthy I have found thus far in the list of 3rd and beyond cousins is the German names related to my half-cousin and me (which means they are related to William, my grandfather). I don't see the Norman and Welsh-Celtic side of the famliy (FIELD landed gentry and EVANS-FREKE baronage famliy) intermarrying many Germans in the 1700's and 1800's, I mean it is possible, but unlikely, so I'm thinking that the German ancestry came from William's mother's side. A bit unusual. I have a lot more names to look at in my results. What I have shared thus far is really preliminary.

Thank you for your continued work on the FIELD family tree. I was pleasantly suprised to note the additons.

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Kyle

I agree with what you say, but the quickest way/ easiest way is to contact the Leslie connection to see where the connection is. It may not be on William's side of the tree. Rather than doing a lot of pointless research in the dark, so to speak. As we really don't know what surname we are looking for, yes, all the other names will have to be investigated at some point. Hopefully the Leslie connection will be a shortcut!

OC

There is no LESLIE connection to my family as you can read in my reply to Kat. Glad I figured that out before any "pointless research in the dark" !! ;-)

[zoomer]

These further back links with cousins could, if solvable, pinpoint certain ancestors, which in turn may help you with closer matches. Ie proving descent from a certain cousin.

Don't ignore people who don't match dna with your cousin either. It's possible for other matches to come from the same family and not all share dna with each other.

Thank you for the helpful suggestion. So far, as far as I can tell the list of 600- something cousins fall into 2 categories: They are related to 1st cousins on my father's side, or they are related to my half-cousin on my mother's side. I am trying to persuade my mother and her siblings to get the same DNA testing. I haven't yet found any mother's mother's side cousins, but I'm just starting to gather the info which is massive.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Good, we can forget the Leslies!

Just a wild thought........foreign governess?Nanny?

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

I do keep meaning to say - I think it's a bit odd that William doesn't seem to have named either his birth father or his birth mother to his wife, or if he did, she didn't think it worth recording.

OC

[zoomer]

Oh dear, disappointing results for you. Perhaps something will turn up in future.
I seemed to be going ever more sideways so decided to stop entering names just for the sake of it - it was me who put the Evans information on the tree. I have loads more I haven't entered because your search is for William's mother and therefore his father.

OC

THank you for your kind words, OC. The results are preliminary, I have not looked at them in depth. There are many pages of distant cousins to sift through! Thank you so much for adding the EVANS info to the tree. Please feel free to add more. I am interested in ALL branches of William's family. Naturally I want to focus on his parents first. I'm pretty sure who the father is, though you think it is Kenneth, but there is still the mystery of who his mother was. In between searching for the mother and learning about the FIELD famliy, I would also like to know more about the EVANS ancestors and how exactly they are related to one of the Barons named Evans-Freke. There is a youtube.com video of the funeral of the last Baron E-F. What a hoot to think that I am related to them! I am interested to know more about them but I can find a lot of stuff online. You do way better with the genealogical stuff than I do.

[zoomer]

I do keep meaning to say - I think it's a bit odd that William doesn't seem to have named either his birth father or his birth mother to his wife, or if he did, she didn't think it worth recording.

OC

In my grandmother's hand-written account, which I will someday post, but not while my mother is living, she mentions the COOPER family that Isabel Newman/Mumford/Fricker worked for while looking after "Bill", then in the margin writes that "his mother's name was COOPER" She did her best to pass on the info before she died.

We have to also consider that my grandfather was deeply ashamed of being illegitimate, about the way the father's famliy treated him (His own biological father may have told him, his first-born and only son, "Your father is dead, I am your grandfather, everyone else in the famly is dead"), and he may even have been paid-off to keep silent about the FIELD name. The origin of the COOPER name is unknowable. He could even have been given misleading info by the FIELD family. Who knows really? Also my grandfather was secretive. Never told his wife about the child he had fathered in the early 1920s, he married his wife in the 30's. But he worked hard his whole life and they had a reasonably good marriage.

[Olde Crone Holden]

When you say German names......do the names Gunter, von Dadelzsen, Michaux, appear? These are all on the Evans side.

OC