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Joseph Charles Fricker

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  • #21
    Originally posted by zoomer View Post
    I am fascinated by your interest in my grandfather, William FRICKER and his adoptive parents, Isabella NEWMAN & Joseph FRICKER. William was born April 17, 1898 to the best of my knowledge. I have never seen or heard of a birth certificate for him. He lied about his age when he joined the Royal Canadian Expeditionary Force in 1915. It was common for young men to do so at the time. I have a copy of a birth certificate for Isabella NEWMAN b. 1883, but no online link. I am not sure if I can cut & paste a copy on this forum. I am new here. Next time I will give you more details if you are still interested in this subject. She was born in St. Mary Extra parish of South Stoneham, Swaything district.
    NEWMAN, ISABELLA Mothers maiden name POOLE
    GRO Reference: 1873 M Quarter in SOUTH STONEHAM Volume 02C Page 43

    and her parents marriage probably:
    Marriages Jun 1866
    Newman William Southampton 2c 21
    Poole Isabella Southampton 2c 21

    According to 1881 census they had a child William born Lambeth

    NEWMAN, WILLIAM HENRY mothers maiden name POOLE
    GRO Reference: 1867 D Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 302

    The other 4 boys were also registered South Stoneham with MMN Poole
    Kat

    My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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    • #22
      Pure speculation! :

      Marriages Dec 1895
      ________________________________________
      Munford William S. Stoneham 2c 125
      Newman Isabella S. Stoneham 2c 125

      1901 census
      Name: Isabella Mumford
      Age: 27
      Estimated birth year: abt 1874
      Relation to Head: Wife
      Gender: Female
      Spouse: William Mumford
      Birth Place: Bursledon, Hampshire, England
      Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
      Town: Cowes
      County/Island: Hampshire
      Registration district: Isle of Wight
      Sub-registration district: Cowes
      Piece: 1017
      Folio: 133
      Page Number: 30
      Household schedule number: 197
      Household Members:
      Name Age
      William Mumford 27 Isle of Wight, Cowes, Hampshire Blacksmith's labourer
      Isabella Mumford 27 Bursledon, Hampshire, as on 1881 census
      William Watson 2 Nurse Child (Nurse) b Southsea Hants


      1911 William Mumford with his brother on 1911 census Cowes says neither mar or single but a Blacksmiths Drumer - no Isabella


      Wonder if Isabella left William and ran off with Joseph and baby William? Don't think she ever married Joseph.
      Last edited by Katarzyna; 19-04-17, 12:09. Reason: added info
      Kat

      My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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      • #23
        Kat that looks very good - I had also seen that marriage, but was having trouble finding them in the 1901 - and to have a nurse child William of the right age! Interesting that in 1901 they are living next door to a Mrs Cooper, which is a name that Zoomer mentioned. Haven't yet tracked down William Watson though.
        Linda


        My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

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        • #24
          I found a 1899 IOW birth for a William Watson mmn Squibb .
          and the marriage Mar 1896 Squibb Frances Amelia to Charles Watson I. Wight 2b 840
          However baby William is with them on 1901 :(
          Kat

          My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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          • #25
            I think the reason there are three possible family names, FIELD or FIELDS seems to be the most likley, is related to the Norman invasion and the illegitimate births that reslted during that time. There are hundreds of other names of less closely related people who share a common ancestor in many nations, all almost exclusively in areas where the Vikings were known to have gone. They certainly spread their DNA around!
            Amelia

            My avatar is my grandfather William as a baby. His origins are shrouded in mystery.....

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            • #26
              I have found a record for an Isabella Newman born in 1873, but I do not think it is the same as my Isabella who was born in 1883. I have a copy of her actual birth certificate showing her to have been born in 1883. They could have been cousins. But this William Watson found here is MOST intriguing! The age is right as he was born in April of 1898, supposedly in Sothampton, however, there has never been any proof of this - no birth or baptismal record. Finally after DECADES I have a new clue to go after. I am guessing that the two Isabellas were cousins or close kin.
              Amelia

              My avatar is my grandfather William as a baby. His origins are shrouded in mystery.....

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              • #27
                Not sure how you know that a "Mrs.Cooper" was "living next door" to them. Is there any way to know more about her?
                Amelia

                My avatar is my grandfather William as a baby. His origins are shrouded in mystery.....

                Comment


                • #28
                  There are two Isabella Newmans of South Stoneham, Hants based on my records. One born in 1873 and the other in 1883 and they must have been closely related.
                  Amelia

                  My avatar is my grandfather William as a baby. His origins are shrouded in mystery.....

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    There are two Isabella Newmans of South Stoneham, Hants based on my records. One born in 1873 (British free BMD records) and the other in 1883 (personal copy of birth certificate) and they must have been closely related. It was common for cousins to have the same first name, usually after a common ancestor with that name. Makes things really frustrating for genealogists, especially when the birth dates are even closer.
                    Amelia

                    My avatar is my grandfather William as a baby. His origins are shrouded in mystery.....

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      This is info my mother posted years ago which has a lot of incorrect information based on faulty or deceitful famliy records. There were no wealthy Cooper shipbuilding families in IOW; my grandmother's hand-written memoir states that William's biolgical mother's name was COOPER. She recorded what was passed down to her from Isabella (NEWMAN) FRICKER herself who said that she was a nanny to young William in the home of wealthy shipbuilding family in IOW.

                      I have found a pssible connection of a Watson whom in the 1700s was involved with a whaling ship - this could be a clue or a wild goose chase.
                      Amelia

                      My avatar is my grandfather William as a baby. His origins are shrouded in mystery.....

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                      • #31
                        I cannot see a birth for Isabella Newman in 1883, only the one in 1873. Can you give details of the 1883 certificate, please? For instance, what is Isabella's mother's maiden name? Her father's name?

                        OC

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                        • #32
                          Isabella's birth of 1873 birth fits with her age given on the 1881 census, 1901 census and her Canadian Passenger List of 1907. If you have one for 1883 then I would say that is the incorrect one. What information do you have from the Canadian or USA censuses?
                          Kat

                          My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                          • #33
                            I have some info about William's RAF records copied from a letter sent by a British genealogist to my mother: He was a temporary 2nd Lt. in the RAF - a low level officer. The wealthy benefactor who paid for his commission, as it was done in those days, was, according to family tradition, his biological grandfather. The name is witheld on the record. The RAF was formed in April 1918 toward the end of the war from a merger of the RFC & the RNAS. Prior to his RAF service, he was Lance Corporal 928232 of the Canadian Expeditionary Force. In August of 1918 he was an RAF cadet and was posted to a training squadron Nov. 1918. He was granted his officer's commission on Feb. 15th, 1919, after the war had ended. Published London Gazette, July 18, 1919. According to family tradition he flew as part of the Channel Patrol. It would make sense that even after the war ended that there would be some surveillance over the channel.
                            Amelia

                            My avatar is my grandfather William as a baby. His origins are shrouded in mystery.....

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              This page about the White shipbuilders has disappeared since 2012, unfortunately. I think it is worth looking into. I think also William could have been cared for by Isabella NEWMAN as a domestic in the home of someone who was not related to him or to his mother whose name may have been COOPER. But this would show up in census record, one would hope.
                              Amelia

                              My avatar is my grandfather William as a baby. His origins are shrouded in mystery.....

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Unfortunately the names of her parents are not on the birth certificate which is most exasperating! I have not found any other record either to match the copy of this birth certificate. For all I know it could have been forged.
                                Amelia

                                My avatar is my grandfather William as a baby. His origins are shrouded in mystery.....

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Zoomer

                                  It certainly sounds suspicious. Although short birth certificates don't show parents names, the date of birth ought to be correct.

                                  I would be very suspicious, especially as we cannot find a birth registered in 1883, but we CAN find one registered in 1873, which fits with most of the facts and that Isabella is living next door to a Mrs Cooper in 1901.

                                  OC
                                  Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 20-04-17, 08:22.

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                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by zoomer View Post
                                    Unfortunately the names of her parents are not on the birth certificate which is most exasperating! I have not found any other record either to match the copy of this birth certificate. For all I know it could have been forged.
                                    could you scan it/take a photo of it?? and post the image on this forum please :smilee: [we could then possibly ascertain whether it is real or forgery]
                                    Julie
                                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                    .......I find dead people

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                                    • #38
                                      .......and if we can't decide, then an appeal to the register office which issued it would clear up any confusion!

                                      OC

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                                      • #39
                                        Just for interest - Coopers living next door to Isabella and William Munford
                                        Can't see anything helpful here.

                                        1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
                                        2, Albert Street, Cowes, Isle of Wight, Hampshire, England

                                        Fanny Cooper Wife Married Female 42 1859 - Hampshire, England
                                        Nellie J Cooper Daughter Single Female 20 1881 - Hampshire, England
                                        Ernest F Cooper Son Single Male 17 1884 Cattleman On Farm Hampshire, England
                                        Mabel F Cooper Daughter - Female 12 1889 Scholar Hampshire, England

                                        1891 census for Coopers mistranscribed under Read on Ancestry but Cooper on FMP

                                        1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
                                        Albert Street, Northwood, Isle of Wight, Hampshire, England

                                        Fanny Cooper Wife Married Female 30 1861 - Freshwater, Hampshire, England
                                        Nellie Cooper Daughter - Female 10 1881 - Freshwater, Hampshire, England
                                        Ernest Cooper Son - Male 7 1884 - Freshwater, Hampshire, England
                                        Mable Cooper Daughter - Female 2 1889 - Freshwater, Hampshire, England

                                        1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
                                        10, Union Road, Northwood, Isle of Wight, Hampshire, England

                                        Fanny Cooper Head Married Female 22 1859 Mariners Wife Freshwater, Hampshire, England
                                        Nellie J Cooper Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - Freshwater, Hampshire, England
                                        Kat

                                        My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          From mariner's wife to wealthy ship builders, lol. The same sort of leap my ggf did from engine driver in a woolen mill to driving the flying Scotsman according to family legend.

                                          OC

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