Contessoir

[Olde Crone Holden]

Carole

The secret is there, in my post, lol - search term CONTESSOIR produced no results on Freebmd, but CONTESSOIR* picked it up as the first part of a hyphenated name!

OC

[Clive Davies]

Wow! I didn't think one name could cause such a stir. O C, you are indeed correct, his name was Frederick William Dennis CONTESSOIR Harnett. I have forwarded all the replies to my older brother who also has an interest in the name. Hopefully he will be able to furnish us with the answers to your questions. My grandfather ( F W D C H ) was in the navy aboard HMS Hood and my brother will should be able to let me have his service number. Clive

[Mary from Italy]

I can see his wife's death; she died quite young, and it doesn't look as though they had any children.

Just found the birth of their daughter in Devonport in 1929 (presumably your mother?). Her mother's maiden name is misspelled in the index, which is why I missed it before.

[taffyfrog]

OC
had completely 'zapped' the fact you were referring to FreeBMD - now I get you-

[Olde Crone Holden]

I've been niggling away at this all day (sad I am!) and I wondered if the name is actually Colonial French, rather than French French, lol.

Very interesting that Frederick was in the Navy and would presumably have gone to exotic places on his travels.

I'm still not seeing a birth record for him though - can you elaborate please, Clive. Does the name Contessoir actually appear on his birth cert?

OC

[Mary from Italy]

How far back have you got with researching the family, Clive? I've been having a look, and the most likely entry I can find in the 1911 census is for Frederick Harnett aged 3, son of Frederick W Harnett, an able seaman in the Royal Navy, and his wife Violet. The best fit for his parents' marriage is between Frederick William Harnett and Jessie Violet Worrell/Worsell. Jessie's parents appear to be John Worsell and Jessie Louisa Canning.

Frederick William Harnett says he was aged 26 and born in Sydenham, Kent. In 1901 he was in the Navy, and in 1891 he was a pauper inmate in the North Surrey District Schools, Penge, with 3 other Harnett children, who may have been his siblings. I haven't found an awful lot online about the school, but I believe it was a residential school designed to teach poor children a trade.

I'm wondering if he or his son, your grandfather (if I have the right family) was embarrassed by this, and invented a posh-sounding name to improve the family's social status. I can't go any further back with the Harnett family, because the children aren't with their parents on any census; you'll need to get a birth certificate for Frederick to go any further.

[Mary from Italy]

I've now found the probable parents of Frederick senior, assuming that he was the brother of the other Harnetts in the school. I've traced that family back to 1841, and there's no sign of a name resembling Contessoir.

[kylejustin]

it may be a very long way back. my 4th great grandfather had a brother called john hellyer gadd b.1818. the name 'hellyer' turned out to be the maiden surname of their 2nd great grandmother, who been married 100 years previously!!

[Olde Crone Holden]

Kyle

Yes, that's certainly a possibility, but the worrying thing here is that there is NO mention of this name anywhere on the internet and you would expect, if it was a real surname, for there to be a few mentions of it.

I agree with Mary that he almost certainly made up this name himself, to big himself up (as did my own Great grandfather). The name may have had some personal significance to him but I doubt if we will ever know what that significance was and it certainly doesn't seem to be a family name.

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

Using Mary's reasearch, above, which I am sure is the correct family, I found a possible birth for Frederick William jnr

Frederick William Harnett June 1907 St Giles 1b 562.

Note there is no sign of a third name beginning with a C - and on the same page of births there IS a birth which has three forenames, so we must conclude that Contessoir did not appear on the birth cert.

I found a few children for the parents of Fred W, including twins born 1912, then a long, strange gap (family abroad perhaps?) until 1919. Jessie Violet died in June 1920, aged 36 and Fred senior remarried in 1922, to Eliza DUBERY - is this vaguely French name a coincidence??? There was one child of the marriage as far as I can see. No sign of the name or initial C anywhere in that lot.

So...Frederick William lied about his age when he married in 1928 - he was 21, not 24.

He was not born with the name Contessoir, but adopted it some time between his birth in 1907/ his appearance on the 1911 and his marriage in 1928. Is it on his service records?

This next is almost certainly a complete red herring but it did catch my eye:

Death of Charlotte H M L C Harnett aged 70 in 1920. It wa all the initials that attracted me, especially the C! As I said, possibly just a red herring....

OC

[kylejustin]

very interesting oc, this kind of mystery is highly intriguing.

[Woodsmoke]

Hello to all, My name is Ian & I am Clive's brother, I have found your posts interesting & intriguing, the 'Contessoir' in mums & her fathers name is indeed an enigma. I will do my best to answer any questions relating to this issue but am a newbie at family tree matters & this website so be gentle with me, initially anyway.
I will respond to some queries that have been made so far:-

*We have not traced the families history but do not know of any French ancestors.
*Our grandfather, FWDC, stated he was 20 yrs old when he married Eileen Victoria Squire (19 yrs old) on the 07th April 1928.
*Our mum, name removed was born on the 18th Aug. 1929.
*Mum says her mother, EV, died when our mum was 9 yrs old & EV 29 yrs old in I guess 1938, cause was something to do with asthma.
* " " her father was always travelling & so after the death of EV mum lived with & was brought up by FWDC s sister.
* " " FWDC was a bit of a cad, though where this came from we do not know.
*At some point, not sure exactly when, FWDC stopped contact & was not heard of or from again.
*Mum tried to trace him through the Salvation Army some 10/15 yrs ago but without success.
*On his marriage cert. he was 20 yrs old so if this is true he was born in 1908.
*At the time of his marriage he was in the navy, HMS Hood, & his service no. was J106328, when Clive had a cursory look he found it stated FWDC was born in Bloomsbury, Cambdon, London on the 06th Jun. 1907, no mention of Contessoir in his name.

I hope some of this is helpful, our mum is not in particularly good health currently but would be more than happy to give more info. if she can.

Sorry, I have had to remove your mother's name as we have a policy of not naming living people. Caroline

[margaretmarch]

Here's a death that might be relevant

Frederick W Harnett
Birth Date: abt 1907
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1965
Age at Death: 58
Registration district: Wandsworth
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5e
Page: 572

[Olde Crone Holden]

(Caroline - as Woodsmoke's mum seems to be well aware of this post and happy to assist with further information, surely it is ok for her to be named? I thought the policy on living people was so that living third parties would not be discussed without their knowledge and permission.)

Woodsmoke

Hi and welcome to FTF. Can you just confirm that the name Contessoir appeared on his marriage cert in 1928, but his Naval record did not include the Contessoir name? If so, I think we can assume it was just a piece of conceit, maybe to make himself seem more interesting to his new bride and her family, lol.

Quite why he chose a name/word that has never ever appeared anywhere else, we may never know. Perhaps he heard the word while he was on his travels and thought it sounded great, but didn't really know how to spell it.

OC

[Woodsmoke]

Thanks margaretmarch, this would seem to fit nicely with regards to FWDC s father.

OC - I can confirm the name Contessoir appears on the marriage cert. but maybe Clive can enlighten us about whether it was on his Naval record, our mum has said that her parents did travel abroad as borne out by their passports, which are probably tucked up in a box somewhere, she has said that Malta figured as a destination by her parents & sort of implied that it was more than once though they may have just liked it there!
I am no expert but I would guess not that many people travelled abroad around the time both together & FWDC on his own, Mum has described her father as a bit of an entrepreneur, he certainly appears to be a very interesting chap.

[Janet]

If he was in the navy before the Second W War then it was quite possible for the wife to accompany her husband to Malta. Malta was a big Navy place for British sailors. My own parents were in Malta during the early 1930's with father in the navy.

Janet

[Olde Crone Holden]

Oooh, I have a Maltese friend - I'll ask her what she knows about the name Contessoir, although it doesn't sound very Maltese to me.

OC

[Mary from Italy]

I've found a passenger list that shows your grandmother travelling to Malta with your mother in 1929; it says that their intended place of future residence was Malta. Your mother was 2 months old. I can't see your father on a passenger list, but the ones online only include civilian ships; people travelling on a Navy ship wouldn't be listed.

[Mary from Italy]

If you want to research your family seriously, I suggest you get a subscription to Ancestry. It's a bit expensive, but you can get a 14-day free trial to see what you think to it. You have to give your credit card details, but no money will be taken from your card if you cancel before the 14 days are up. Alternatively, your local library will probably be able to offer free access to Ancestry.

[Mary from Italy]

What does it give for FWDC's father's name on the marriage cert? (I'm guessing Frederick William.)