Freemans, Levines of ireland? "Desperately Seeking Shulla" and her origins

[lillebetta]

Myer David Levine is the name. Formerly Levitt as per story. These people lived at 32 Lincoln Ave. Myer lived at 29 Lincoln Ave. Brothers?

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Clifton/Lincoln_Avenue/962068/

General search results:

://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1901&surname=Levitt&firstn ame=&county=&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=&search=Searc h&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation= &marriageStatus=&birthplace=&language=&deafdumb=&m arriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=

[Wallaby]

Myer David Levine is the name. Formerly Levitt as per story. These people lived at 32 Lincoln Ave. Myer lived at 29 Lincoln Ave. Brothers?

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Clifton/Lincoln_Avenue/962068/

General search results:

://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1901&surname=Levitt&firstn ame=&county=&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=&search=Searc h&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation= &marriageStatus=&birthplace=&language=&deafdumb=&m arriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=

Yes, sorry Myer David, not vice versa... I'm used to calling him David. I have explained that his name could be either way around, to cover more options. My grandfather's eldest brother was Isace Freedman on his Nat Records & Jacob Freedman on the BCs of his Dublin born children, then Isaac again on the shipping records to SA in 1892! It depends what side of the bed they get out of I think lol!


Wal'


PS I've read there's the 1940 US census out in a few weeks, that might help you... I don't think we'll be alive to see the 1921 UK census!

[lillebetta]

Yes, sorry Myer David, not vice versa... I'm used to calling him David. I have explained that his name could be either way around, to cover more options. My grandfather's eldest brother was Isace Freedman on his Nat Records & Jacob Freedman on the BCs of his Dublin born children, then Isaac again on the shipping records to SA in 1892! It depends what side of the bed they get out of I think lol!


Wal'


PS I've read there's the 1940 US census out in a few weeks, that might help you... I don't think we'll be alive to see the 1921 UK census!

Oi! lol. idon't have much hope for the 1940 census here. 1921 Uk could be handy, but as you say, that will be too late for us!

Your persistence is incredible.

Lil

[Wallaby]

Oi! lol. idon't have much hope for the 1940 census here. 1921 Uk could be handy, but as you say, that will be too late for us!

Your persistence is incredible.

Lil

I had good tutors with OC & the rest of the members whose names you will see on my thread, you've only met 10% of them as yet!


Wal'

[Tilly Mint]

Naturalisations - between 1902 and 1906..................

MYRO LAVINE...29 Thorndale Avenue, Belfast, Russia. April 04, 06/05/04 p 27

[Wallaby]

Naturalisations - between 1902 and 1906..................

MYRO LAVINE...29 Thorndale Avenue, Belfast, Russia. April 04, 06/05/04 p 27

This is defo him Jacky, as his address is the same as found on census, but not sure if Ann & Mary had found his nat records before ? I've been doing a bit of adjustments on my book, so have lost track of where Lillebetta is up to with this.

Notice his name is Myro Lavine, but still can't find his death under any variation of his name!


Wal'

[annswabey]

There's no naturalisation at TNA for the alternative spelling - Myro Lavine - but the record I found before, as follows, might be the same one. No way of knowing address without looking at the file.
HO 144/719/110413 Levine, Myre, from Russia. Resident in Belfast. Certificate 14336 issued 19 April 1904.

[lillebetta]

There's no naturalisation at TNA for the alternative spelling - Myro Lavine - but the record I found before, as follows, might be the same one. No way of knowing address without looking at the file.
HO 144/719/110413 Levine, Myre, from Russia. Resident in Belfast. Certificate 14336 issued 19 April 1904.

Thank you!

My memory is awful. I applied for this online. They were supposed to send my a price quote. I have not heard back. Is this the way thins go at the NA? I may need your help yet. It's only been four days. Probably fine for now.

29 is interesting. In 1911 they were at 44 Thorndale. In 1903 when Shulla dies her last known address was 29 Lincoln! I'm still sure it's him.

Census reel from 1911

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001435831/

The above is attached to this record. The record I have written by Leah says 44 Thorndale. Yeesh.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Clifton/Thorndale_Avenue/147258/

If you look further for the house number in the census record you get this:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Clifton/Thorndale_Avenue/963304/

What a mess!

[naomiatt]

Levine, Myre, Russia, Date of taking Oath of Allegiance, 23rd April, 1904, Belfast, 29, Thorndale-avenue shows as this in the London Gazette.

“I'm totally intrigued with the Sephardic angle. haven't gotten any response to the email I sent re that.” – that info didn’t make sense, at least not for Myer David. Couldn’t have been older than his father.

“Leah Levine married Robert Thompson. Mother Rebecca is Widowed.” – Is Leah a daughter of Myer David? If so, did he re-marry to a Rebecca or is Robert's mother called Rebecca?

32 Lincoln shows Nathan Levitt as having brothers living there, Julius and Samuel. Who told you the original surname was Levitt?

In the Jewish Chronicle: ...eldestdaughter of Mr. Myer and the late Mrs. Levine, 29, Thorndale-avenue, Belfast, to....
JANUARY 21 1910


How do you know the address for Shulla was 29 Lincoln?

[lillebetta]

Levine, Myre, Russia, Date of taking Oath of Allegiance, 23rd April, 1904, Belfast, 29, Thorndale-avenue shows as this in the London Gazette.

“I'm totally intrigued with the Sephardic angle. haven't gotten any response to the email I sent re that.” – that info didn’t make sense, at least not for Myer David. Couldn’t have been older than his father.

“Leah Levine married Robert Thompson. Mother Rebecca is Widowed.” – Is Leah a daughter of Myer David? If so, did he re-marry to a Rebecca or is Robert's mother called Rebecca?

32 Lincoln shows Nathan Levitt as having brothers living there, Julius and Samuel. Who told you the original surname was Levitt?

How do you know the address for Shulla was 29 Lincoln?

Cool find in the newspaper! I did sign up for that archive and found nothing. Have you got a link?

The Sephardic angle is really intriguing. It gives me goosebumps. Jives with my personal inclinations and impresions of Myer from the photo. Nothing to report but hoping there's some explanation coming.

Yes, Leah is Myer's daughter. Robert's mother is Rebecca. Tracing that family line is a bonus. They are tricky, but as I posted earlier I think you people here have shown me the way to do it.

I believe the 29 Lincoln Ave came from the burial record for Shulla in Belfast. Yup. That's it.

The name change from Levitt came from a book my cousin has that was filled in by Leah's daughter. Her only source was Leah.
There are three possible brothers Levitt in Belfast, Nathan and two brothers. We're on the same page.

[naomiatt]

The name change from Levitt came from a book my cousin has that was filled in by Leah's daughter. Her only source was Leah - have you been through that book 100% yourself...could provide a lot more clues..is it a diary?

With the JC unless you subscribe you can't see the full info but it does give some, as per the marriage above...there are also mention of Myer Levine, M Levine and some of those other names in there..first I did 29 Thorndale, earliest first, exact, so play around with all addresses and names..you could also for example search, all words, Belfast, Levine or Levitt, earliest first..

http://archive.thejc.com/search/frame.jsp?UseridStr=48,101,229,24,61,121,19,168&ExpireStr=214,92,94,125,179,6,65,80,61,52,253,165,168,54,235,211,179,239,32,221,131,86,163,29&Arch=&SubsNo=48,101,229,24,61,121,19,168

In the Jewish Chronicle: ...eldestdaughter of Mr. Myer and the late Mrs. Levine, 29, Thorndale-avenue, Belfast, to....
JANUARY 21 1910 - are you aware of this marriage? It must have been a Jewish ceremony to be in the JC at that time..

of Mrs. SEMI LEVITT, father of Morris and Myer Levitt, of Belfast, Nathan Levitt, of 91, S. C. RM Louis Levitt, of 11, Grove-park, Rathmines, Dublin, and Julius and Sam Levitt, ol n,EoTSgwood-avenue... a large circle of friends. May her soul rest in peace. Amen. African papers please copy. LEVITT.-On...
AUGUST 31 1900 (Page:18/-)

[lillebetta]

The name change from Levitt came from a book my cousin has that was filled in by Leah's daughter. Her only source was Leah - have you been through that book 100% yourself...could provide a lot more clues..is it a diary?

With the JC unless you subscribe you can't see the full info but it does give some, as per the marriage above...there are also mention of Myer Levine, M Levine and some of those other names in there..first I did 29 Thorndale, earliest first, exact, so play around with all addresses and names..you could also for example search, all words, Belfast, Levine or Levitt, earliest first..

http://archive.thejc.com/search/frame.jsp?UseridStr=48,101,229,24,61,121,19,168&ExpireStr=214,92,94,125,179,6,65,80,61,52,253,165,168,54,235,211,179,239,32,221,131,86,163,29&Arch=&SubsNo=48,101,229,24,61,121,19,168

In the Jewish Chronicle: ...eldestdaughter of Mr. Myer and the late Mrs. Levine, 29, Thorndale-avenue, Belfast, to....
JANUARY 21 1910 - are you aware of this marriage? It must have been a Jewish ceremony to be in the JC at that time..

of Mrs. SEMI LEVITT, father of Morris and Myer Levitt, of Belfast, Nathan Levitt, of 91, S. C. RM Louis Levitt, of 11, Grove-park, Rathmines, Dublin, and Julius and Sam Levitt, ol n,EoTSgwood-avenue... a large circle of friends. May her soul rest in peace. Amen. African papers please copy. LEVITT.-On...
AUGUST 31 1900 (Page:18/-)

The book is not a diary. It's a "fill in the blanks" kind of large format childish thing. My cousin lives far away. I have been twice to go through her box of Leah's things but have had very limited time and it's an expensive jaunt. She wants me to come back but we both have limitations. It's difficult at best.

The eldest daughter is Fanny Edith. She married Phillip Appleman. That is documented. She is the only one who stayed in Belfast,
no kids.

re: the African paper, death of Mrs. Semi Levitt. Wow! The same aunt, daughter of of Leah, who filled in that odd book (a little bit)
used to write to rellies in SA when she was a teen (1930's) according to my mother. No letters have been found. This is the first solid clue as to who she might have been in touch with. Thank you so much. I have been searching blindly. It also validates my idea of who Myer's brothers were. Amazing. All five. This is gold.

You are brilliant! Thank you.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Probably of no significance whatsoever, but when I was a teenager there were three clothes shops called Levine, Levitt and Levi. All three were owned by the same family, so maybe it was not unusual for the name to shift between Levine and Levitt?

Also, in the late 1700s, I have a family in Yorkshire whose surname was Levitt. They were extremely wealthy and influential and I have often wondered if their origins were Jewish.

OC

[Tilly Mint]

Have we got this ?

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Clifton/Lincoln_Avenue/962068/

[naomiatt]

Hi Tilly Mint, yes, few before yours. I wonder if this is Nathan and Florence...Florence born in England according to the census info:

Births Jun 1875
AMSELEM Florence Liverpool 8b 126

Marriages Sep 1895
Amselem Florence Liverpool 8b 365
Levitt Nathan Liverpool 8b 365

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1895
LEVITT Nathan AMSELEM Florence Liverpool, Hope Place Synagogue Liverpool J12/2/145

Don't know if there's a connection, found this in 1901
LEVITT Samuel RABINOWITZ Rebecca Liverpool, Hope Place Synagogue Liverpool J12/3/52 and in 1907
LEVITT Sarah HARRIS Benjamine Liverpool, New Bethamedrash Synagogue Liverpool J1/2/84

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi

OC, I think Levitt might be from Levite and although Levitt can also be an old Anglo French surname, don't see why not.

[Wallaby]

Hi Tilly Mint, yes, few before yours. I wonder if this is Nathan and Florence...

Marriages Sep 1895
Amselem Florence Liverpool 8b 365
Levitt Nathan Liverpool 8b 365

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1895
LEVITT Nathan AMSELEM Florence Liverpool, Hope Place Synagogue Liverpool J12/2/145

Don't know if there's a connection, found this in 1901
LEVITT Samuel RABINOWITZ Rebecca Liverpool, Hope Place Synagogue Liverpool J12/3/52 and in 1907
LEVITT Sarah HARRIS Benjamine Liverpool, New Bethamedrash Synagogue Liverpool J1/2/84

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi

It would not surprise me if this Levine/Levitt/Levi family & Harris family were the same families that my Freemans have married into.

Never heard of the New Bethamedrash Synagogue in Liverpool, but Hope Place is the synagogue all my father's brothers were married at.


Wal'

[naomiatt]

It would not surprise me if this Levine/Levitt/Levi family & Harris family were the same families that my Freemans have married into.

Never heard of the New Bethamedrash Synagogue in Liverpool, but Hope Place is the synagogue all my father's brothers were married at.


Wal'

http://www.jewishgen.org/jcr-uk/community/lp14/index.htm

[Tilly Mint]

Yes the Florence 1 looks good....

LEVITT

Nathan

AMSELEM

Florence

Liverpool, Hope Place Synagogue

Liverpool

Found this - but the site is not safe to enter - they are family trees by Mu***a

Florence Amselem

Born: Lancashire, England

Lived in: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Died: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
7 immediate family members including NATHAN and DOROTHY HANNAH

[annswabey]

No idea how long the National Archives take to give an estimate for copies. I've never asked them as I always get them myself! Perhaps someone on here who has requested a price would know.

[lillebetta]

No idea how long the National Archives take to give an estimate for copies. I've never asked them as I always get them myself! Perhaps someone on here who has requested a price would know.

Would you PM me with quote or estimate? I also would like to get the military record for Robert Thompson but that will require a search. I have his DOB and Mother's name, sisters names and address in 1911. Is that enough?

Thanks,

Lil