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Freemans, Levines of ireland? "Desperately Seeking Shulla" and her origins

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  • #21
    Originally posted by annswabey View Post
    There's a naturalisation at the National Archives - might be him?

    HO 144/719/110413 Levine, Myre, from Russia. Resident in Belfast. Certificate 14336 issued 19 April 1904.
    The only place the name David shows up is at burial. It could be him. Thank you. The date makes sense, a year after Shula died.

    Is this something I can see online and/or order?
    Last edited by lillebetta; 09-03-12, 00:14.

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    • #22
      Oh. I'm blown away. That is him!? Leading a double life? Divorced? Oh. Oh. OH. The grave is certain. The rest is giving me a heart attack! Thank you. This mystery, this tsouris, this madness. I am hooked now!

      The parents listed for him are too young, the Musaphia children are impossible as well. He would have had to father the first at age ten! There is something erroneous about the relationships if there in fact any.
      Last edited by lillebetta; 09-03-12, 00:33.

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      • #23
        It's no good looking for David. Myer is the name he used. I have copies of the first two articles, but you may right about subscribing,
        especially if i want to delve further into his possible relations. Thank you.
        Last edited by lillebetta; 09-03-12, 00:30.

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        • #24
          You'll find the naturalisation details here:



          There are two files; they clearly relate to the same person, but I have no idea if they'll contain the same or different information.

          If you click on the title of the file, it takes you to a page where you can request photocopies, and they'll send you an estimate.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
            You'll find the naturalisation details here:



            There are two files; they clearly relate to the same person, but I have no idea if they'll contain the same or different information.

            If you click on the title of the file, it takes you to a page where you can request photocopies, and they'll send you an estimate.
            Excellent. Thank you.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by lillebetta View Post
              You folks are quick! Hi Naomi. These are great questions. Story says Levit/Levitt was changed by David Myer to Levine.

              I can't read Hebrew so I only have the translation of headstone I was given. Dovid Myer son of Zeev is what I was told with slightly different spelling which as I understand it is meaningless. I do have a picture of it. More family in Ireland? I feel certain of it, "feel" being the operative word.

              All I know is that they kept kosher. I assumed from the name that they were Levites, but now? The photo I have of Myer (that's how he was referred to and the name he used for business) made me think he was Sephardic when I first saw it years ago. It has only recently come into my possession which kicked off this quest.

              Fanny and Phillip married in Belfast 1910. David may have naturalized but I don't know. Shulla died in 1903. The three youngest kids were little. They moved to a nicer house. I'm sure he had domestic help. Leah and Freda were "helpless" in the kitchen as married women. They lived with their father, unmarried, until he died. They left six months later.

              It's quite a tale from there. I really want to get a sense of their lives in Belfast and the kind of family they were.

              My mother dredged up a memory today of visiting Freemans in New York. She wasn't sure but it must have been in the early to mid fifties.
              Hi - if you'd like to send me a photo of the stone off line I'll have a look. His father's name, in theory, would have been passed down through the family somewhere after he was deceased. Could be that Levit/t was meant to be Levite, although it usually shows as Levy or Levi, H'Levi on a stone or in religious documents. Some Ashkenazim definitely look Sephardic. I have the same on one side. I suppose they all moved around so much that it would be quite logical. Have you searched addresses, names etc in the Belfast Gazette and also in the London Gazette http://www.belfast-gazette.co.uk/

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              • #27
                The address for Myre Levene above in 1904 was 29, Thorndale Avenue, Belfast...

                Comment


                • #28
                  Had you seen this?

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by naomiatt View Post
                    The address for Myre Levene above in 1904 was 29, Thorndale Avenue, Belfast...
                    That's very cool. Thanks. I knew the address but not when he moved. This fits with the naturalization and Shula's
                    death.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by naomiatt View Post
                      Hi - if you'd like to send me a photo of the stone off line I'll have a look. His father's name, in theory, would have been passed down through the family somewhere after he was deceased. Could be that Levit/t was meant to be Levite, although it usually shows as Levy or Levi, H'Levi on a stone or in religious documents. Some Ashkenazim definitely look Sephardic. I have the same on one side. I suppose they all moved around so much that it would be quite logical. Have you searched addresses, names etc in the Belfast Gazette and also in the London Gazette http://www.belfast-gazette.co.uk/
                      Lost my reply. I'm so tired.

                      Thank you. By off line do you mean snail mail? I only have the image digitally.

                      Sorry, I mis-typed Zaev/Zev. I also search for the given name Wolf in other families that may be connected in Ireland and the UK. Clutching at straws I know, but it is paying off.

                      There are no descendants with Jewish names. Were all accounted for, unless Harry had kids, which judging from a photo I have, is highly unlikely. He is seriously missing from the record.

                      Being Jewish was a closely guarded secret in Leah and Freda's generation.
                      It was never discussed. Their children were forbidden to mention it. The women married out and lived as gentiles. All I knew was that there was a scrap of paper in Leah's bible with Myer and Shula's names on it. It turned out to be much better than that. I got a family tree in her hand "for Christmas" last year! ;) This project has gotten me in touch with cousins after years and years. My first cousin had no clue about the Jewish aspect until just a couple of years ago. That's how quiet my clan can be. Ridiculous imo.

                      I want to change that. It's working, little by little.

                      Now I've re written it and just noticed auto-save feature! Time to sleep.

                      Nite.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        As Mary says, there are 2 refs for the naturalisation at the National Archives. The reference I gave you - the HO144 one- is the most useful. The other, the HO 334 one, is the actual certificate and just really contains a summary of some of the info in HO 144.
                        The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
                        Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by lillebetta View Post
                          So excited. Just got a clipping from the Belfast newsletter 1899 that lists the following people together on the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles, Sept. 27. They were honoring Lord Mayor Otto Jaffe.

                          Myer Levine, Samuel Freeman, Louis Berowitz, Meyer Rosenfield, J. Meyers, stewards of the ceremony. Flowers by Miss Eva Freeman. She in turn was presented with a bouquet by Master Joseph Myers on behalf of Mr. and Mrs. J. G. Meyers.

                          Mr. Fred Freeman presiding

                          And it mentions many more. I'll have to come back later to list them all. There are more Freemans/Freedman. Stay tuned.

                          Off to lunch with the elders for Purim.

                          Ohh brilliant Lillebetta... I must admit, I was rushing out when I read Naomi's email about the Belfast Gazette, I didn't know there was one, as only ever looked at the London Gazette. But then my search has only recently turned to Belfast.

                          I joined a the Jewish-Belfast website last week & placed an introduction message detailing my research & the names I'm looking for in Belfast, it's had about 30 hits, but not one post! I went back & added a post about your Levine family too.
                          But I'm not holding my breath on any response as not even a message of welcome! Maybe they are a bit cliquey in Belfast.

                          Wal
                          We should never forget them,
                          Because we would not be here today, but for them.
                          We should be proud, reflect, respect and always remember them.
                          Because we all have them…
                          Them… were our Ancestors.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by annswabey View Post
                            There's a naturalisation at the National Archives - might be him?

                            HO 144/719/110413 Levine, Myre, from Russia. Resident in Belfast. Certificate 14336 issued 19 April 1904.

                            Ooo that sounds good Ann... it might give his parents, but it still won't tell us anything about Shulla Freeman, altho at least it might tell us if he was married when he naturalised.


                            Wal'
                            We should never forget them,
                            Because we would not be here today, but for them.
                            We should be proud, reflect, respect and always remember them.
                            Because we all have them…
                            Them… were our Ancestors.

                            Comment


                            • #34

                              Yes, that's his grave, no stone on Shulla's grave tho.


                              This link to this family tree looks exciting Jacky! Lillibetta, could this be your Myer ?


                              Wal'
                              We should never forget them,
                              Because we would not be here today, but for them.
                              We should be proud, reflect, respect and always remember them.
                              Because we all have them…
                              Them… were our Ancestors.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post


                                Hi Mary, this is SR's website at the Jewish Museum. I extracted (LOL!) all the info that SR had on David Myer Levine when a friend of Lillebetta's first contacted me on behalf of Lillebetta & I passed that info onto him for Lillebetta.
                                SR knows nothing more & some things in his archives are not 100% accurate re David.

                                Wal'
                                We should never forget them,
                                Because we would not be here today, but for them.
                                We should be proud, reflect, respect and always remember them.
                                Because we all have them…
                                Them… were our Ancestors.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by lillebetta View Post
                                  Lost my reply. I'm so tired.

                                  Thank you. By off line do you mean snail mail? I only have the image digitally.

                                  Sorry, I mis-typed Zaev/Zev. I also search for the given name Wolf in other families that may be connected in Ireland and the UK. Clutching at straws I know, but it is paying off.

                                  There are no descendants with Jewish names. Were all accounted for, unless Harry had kids, which judging from a photo I have, is highly unlikely. He is seriously missing from the record.

                                  Being Jewish was a closely guarded secret in Leah and Freda's generation.
                                  It was never discussed. Their children were forbidden to mention it. The women married out and lived as gentiles. All I knew was that there was a scrap of paper in Leah's bible with Myer and Shula's names on it. It turned out to be much better than that. I got a family tree in her hand "for Christmas" last year! ;) This project has gotten me in touch with cousins after years and years. My first cousin had no clue about the Jewish aspect until just a couple of years ago. That's how quiet my clan can be. Ridiculous imo.

                                  I want to change that. It's working, little by little.

                                  Now I've re written it and just noticed auto-save feature! Time to sleep.

                                  Nite.


                                  OHHH does this ring bells for me load & clear LOL!


                                  Wal'
                                  We should never forget them,
                                  Because we would not be here today, but for them.
                                  We should be proud, reflect, respect and always remember them.
                                  Because we all have them…
                                  Them… were our Ancestors.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Some good info about Belfast Jewish families & ways to research them on this link.





                                    Wal'
                                    We should never forget them,
                                    Because we would not be here today, but for them.
                                    We should be proud, reflect, respect and always remember them.
                                    Because we all have them…
                                    Them… were our Ancestors.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by annswabey View Post
                                      As Mary says, there are 2 refs for the naturalisation at the National Archives. The reference I gave you - the HO144 one- is the most useful. The other, the HO 334 one, is the actual certificate and just really contains a summary of some of the info in HO 144.
                                      Thanks. I'm curious as to what information would be on the doc. Any witnesses, sponsors eg?

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Wallaby View Post
                                        Yes, that's his grave, no stone on Shulla's grave tho.


                                        This link to this family tree looks exciting Jacky! Lillibetta, could this be your Myer ?


                                        Wal'
                                        It's mysterious. I would need to know why these people are listed together and when. The dates/ages don't work out.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Wallaby View Post
                                          OHHH does this ring bells for me load & clear LOL!


                                          Wal'
                                          Oy vey! LOL

                                          Comment

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