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Ellen Harries nee Hickford mystery lady! help needed!

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  • Ellen Harries nee Hickford mystery lady! help needed!

    Hi there, as I am totally out of ideas now again I find myself turning to these pages, hoping someone may be able to help me, this time its my paternal great grandfathers first wife I am looking for, her maiden name is Hickford, first name of Ellen, sometimes she comes up as Helen, she married my great grandfather Alexander Harries in 1888 islington London (I am awaiting the marriage cert as I cant find the banns online for clues to her parents)

    As far as I can tell she only shows up on the 1891 census as being born in Highbury north London & 1901 census as being born in Holloway which more or less bleeds into the same part of North London Uk, her date of birth is abt 1872 according to the census records. I can find no record of her being born and nothing of her dying though Alexander comes up as being a widow on the 1911 census, so I would love to find a birth and death record for this lady and I would be very grateful again if someone can shed any light on the matter, I dont think this was a 2nd marriage for her as her age works out to be about 16 when she married Alexander!

  • #2
    could be her birth

    Eleanor Rose Hickford Mar quarter 1871 Islington 1B 302

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    • #3
      thanks Val, it might be I certainly cant find an Ellen! its just the marriage is registered to 'Ellen' so I hadnt thought to look at Eleanor!

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      • #4
        I have tried to find a death under Eleanor Harries but cant find anything, nothing on the census either, she doesnt want to be found does she! I really hope I can find out more about her especially when she died, its quite an important thing for me as I'm trying to piece together a bit of a family mystery that shes part of!

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        • #5
          This is possibly her & family in 1871


          Moggie

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          • #7
            hi moggy thanks for looking for me! I think thats likely to be the same family on that first census but a different family on the 2nd one, it looks more like hindley and their birth places are different, great for the 1871 census, maybe once the marriage cert arrives I will be able to tie in the fathers name !

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            • #8
              I have a Susanna Eleanor Wood, she was b.1871 married 1890, could I find her after 1891 cens? nope, I found her husband in 1901 with another woman and other children.... looked through the indexes, nothing couldnt find a dicky bird... it wasnt until I went to the archives and went through the burial register for the council cemetery, there was an ELLEN Wood buried in nov 1891 right age too, I then went to my local reg office and asked them if the husbands name was George and gave them a rough address, it was her!! after all that time.. I had found her.

              so dont think just because she used the name Ellen that was her name..lol! Eleanor/Ellen/Nell/Helen..
              Julie
              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

              .......I find dead people

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              • #9
                Your right there Julie! shes named as Helen on one census after marrying! Alexanders 2nd wife, my great grandmother, also had a whole collection of names she went by & the german naming system of some of my ancestors is really confussing! Also from experience I know Harries is often wrongly writen as Harris, theres even a few entrys in the trade directories that do this to Alexander! I'm still having zero luck with a death so any ideas there folks? it has to be between 1901 and 1911

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                • #10
                  hmn, have you looked for another marriage? for Ellen I mean..
                  Julie
                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                  .......I find dead people

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                  • #11
                    she was about 16 or 17 when she married Alexander but I did look anyway!

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                    • #12
                      Originally posted by ajchambers8 View Post
                      she was about 16 or 17 when she married Alexander but I did look anyway!
                      sorry no, I mean after 1901, he might have told fibs saying he was a widow, to save face..
                      Julie
                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                      .......I find dead people

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        The thought crossed my mind but I was told one of his boys ended upon the streets after the mother died so I think that would have been noted however I its part of why I am trying to find out her death as my grandfather was born in 1911 (his mother was a servant in the house on the census of the same year and was a year or two younger than his eldest daughter! Alexander was a widow on that census) and Alexander didnt marry his mother until 1919 and a new birth certificate was issued to my grandfather with the name Harries rather than his mothers maiden name in 1926, when Alexander was dying.

                        I am trying to find out when Ellen died so I can see how close all these events ran together , I spent yesterday at the Holborn archives piecing addresses and trade listings together and the two years I am missing for him are round about 1909-1911 which I thought might have been when Ellen died ... a bit complicated but who ever said those Victorians and Edwardians were a bunch of preudes had it far from the truth!

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                        • #14
                          according to a tree on Ancestry Ellen Hickford born 1872 Holloway died in 1905 in Bayern Germany???
                          Tree belongs to compo59

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                          • #15
                            Hi there compo seems to have taken a lot of info from my tree and sadly not all of it is correct, she almost definitly didnt die in germany I originally put down what I called a 'provisional date of death' of 1905 inbetween 1901 and 1911 as a rough guide to try and help find her true death, as I know its between those years, which compo must have added to their tree as fact before reading the note I had put about it, I'm almost certain this line of my tree had no German roots

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                            • #16
                              I have just seen your thread and haven't got time to look into it closer at the moment but I found a death that might be worth checking out/cross referencing? You didn't say where they were living in 1901?
                              The age is a few years out but the nearest I could find quickly.
                              Helen Margaret Harries - died aged 41 - Oct-Dec 1907 - Hackney 1b 245

                              It may not fit at all but I found it and didn't want to lose it until I had time to look at your query closer.
                              Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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                              • #17
                                Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post
                                I have just seen your thread and haven't got time to look into it closer at the moment but I found a death that might be worth checking out/cross referencing? You didn't say where they were living in 1901?
                                The age is a few years out but the nearest I could find quickly.
                                Helen Margaret Harries - died aged 41 - Oct-Dec 1907 - Hackney 1b 245

                                It may not fit at all but I found it and didn't want to lose it until I had time to look at your query closer.
                                Hi there, I really appreciate that! I hadnt seen that death but I think her husband would have made sure her name was correct as he was alive, I know they were living at 20 wood green high rd on the 1901 census, in 1902 they were living in kentish town, I dont think Hackney is close enough to the area, even if she was in hospital its likely to be one in hampstead or camden? I havent found any links to Hackney til my own generation!

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                                • #18
                                  that birth I found fits in with Moggies 1871 census and that says Eleanor ? I would say 99% sure its her

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                                  • #19
                                    if you aren't sure of her name ? how do you know the one Chrissy found is wrong ? Maybe the person who registered it didn't know? may not have been her husband ? My own Fathers Death Cert is wrong simply because the lady who registered it guessed.

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                                    • #20
                                      when was the last child born to Ellen born please? 1902? if so, is it possible that the child was born dec q 1901 and not registered until 1902?

                                      reason I ask is that I have found a possible death

                                      Name: Ellen Frances Harris
                                      Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
                                      Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1901
                                      Age at Death: 30
                                      Registration district: Pancras
                                      Inferred County: London
                                      Volume: 1b
                                      Page: 8

                                      Kentish Town would fall under Pancras district.

                                      I know that according to census she was born abt. 1871/2 but if she was of full age when she married, then, that would put her birth around 1867. so she might have fibbed about her age on the census.
                                      Last edited by Darksecretz; 23-11-11, 13:44.
                                      Julie
                                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                      .......I find dead people

                                      Comment

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