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  • Web picture of census

    I wonder if anyone can help? I have found a relative who is 1 year old on the 1871 census, unfortunately I can't read the head of the household's surname, my relative's name is William Tucker Baggs born either 1869 or 1870 either born in Boro' or Southwark London and he is noted as a boarder, I wonder where his mother is as the surname of the head of the household although I can't read doesn't seem to me to read as Baggs. I'd really appreciate any help on this I'm particularly keen on finding his parents and how they might be related to the family his is boarding with in 1871.

    many thanks in anticipation Ali

  • #2
    FindMyPast have the head of household transcribed as Lawson Scarnel Fryer. Very faint writing but that looks plausible to me.

    Kirsty

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    • #3
      Originally posted by MyAinFolk View Post
      FindMyPast have the head of household transcribed as Lawson Scarnel Fryer. Very faint writing but that looks plausible to me.

      Kirsty
      Ancestry has it Lawren Searnel Frayer. I have to admit it looks like Searnel to me.

      Robert
      http://www.mancunianreds.com/
      Names looking for:
      ENGLAND (Cornwall especially Padstow or St Columb Mjr and Stoke Damerel, Devonport, Devon) TRESIDDER (Cornwall) PRYNN (Cornwall) WORDEN (Cornwall)
      "Nothing great is easy" Captain Matthew Webb

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      • #4
        Lawson Samuel Fryer - didn't look at transcription, this is my interpretation.

        Seems to be a marriage for him and wife Ann Maria Q2 1851 in Bermondsey He is listed as Lawson Fryer or Lawton Fryer, she as Ann Maria Lawson or Ann Maria Lawton.

        Have found this marriage on Ancestry, May 26 1851 in Christchurch, Bermondsey. His first name and her surname both look like Lawson to me. Her father Charles Lawson, carpenter; his father Christmas Fryer, farmer
        Last edited by JudithM; 11-10-11, 19:30.
        Judith passed away in October 2018

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        • #5
          Lawson's baptism is on the FamilySearch site:
          image 30/54 (page 50, entry 400) of the Hempnall, Norfolk, parish baptism register, March 14, 1824.

          I'm not sure that that middle name is any easier to read!

          He's described (I think) as Lawson Scarnell, Son of Christmas & Lucey late SCARNELL, surname FRYER.

          The family - or some of it - shows up in 1841 in Hempnall, but the wife is "Ann". HO107/757 bk/fo 12 p 16.

          I guess that more info could be found by trawling the parish registers for Hempnall - but I don't think I should be doing that!

          Chrisitne
          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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          • #6
            Thank you all for you help with the name, I'll order William Tucker's birth cert to try and find out who his mother is, he is only a baby in 1871, does anyone have an opinion on why he might have been left with the Fryer's? thanks a million again for you help, Alison

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            • #7
              Perhaps an unmarried mum who had to earn a living so put son with foster parent? If this is the case (and of course his birth cert will tell) perhaps his middle name of Tucker was his father's surname.
              Judith passed away in October 2018

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              • #8
                you dont have a marriage for tucker?

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                • #9
                  Hi thanks to everyone for your help, I too did wondered if his mother was unmarried or had been deserted, which left me wondering if William Tucker Baggs is related to the family or not, am not sure how to find out other than order WT's birth cert.

                  Kylejustin William Tucker Baggs married Marion Rose Miller June 1893 Woolwich Kent. I haven't managed to find parents of either Marion or William yet.

                  kind regards Ali

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                  • #10
                    if you had a copy of the cert, it would give father's names and occupations. that would at least help identify the families you are after.

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                    • #11
                      It is Lawson Scarnell Fryer born in Hempnall Norfolk in 1824 and died Bermondsey St Olave's District 1892. He is my Great Great Grandfather. His father was Christmas Fryer born in Hempnall 25 December 1794. Christmas Fryer married (Twice in two different churches!) Lucy Scarnell daughter of Yeoman farmer Lawson Scarnell of "The Green Hempnall" who died in 1808. His will can be seen on the Norfolk Record Office NOAH on-line system...."The Green" is a road above Hempnall....Christmas Fryer farmed in Hempnall until the early 1870s....Lawson Scarnell Fryer did marry Ann Lawson (Charlady)...They had a son William Lawson Fryer born 1852 11th May in Bermondsey Workhouse died Walthamstow 1940...He married Mary Ann Pennington 26th May 1876 St James Bermondsey...We do not know if the "Lawson" was a perpetuation of Lawson Scarnell of Hempnall Yeoman or was derived from Ann Lawson (Above)...William Lawson Fryer became a Navy pensioner and the Census records him as a pensioner in 1829...William Lawson Fryer and his wife had my Grandfather Jack Fryer and amongst others he and his wife Alice Rose had my mother Kathleen Fryer and her brother also called William Lawson Fryer....

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                      • #12
                        It is Lawson Scarnell Fryer born Hempnall Norfolk 1824 died Berrmondsey 1892. My Gt Gt Grandfather

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                        • #13
                          Sorry a pensioner aged 29! I was told they all lived at one time at Keaton Road Bermondsey and I was taken there as a biy aged about 4..I recall tall houses and a road lined with trees. Keaton Road is still there and lined with trees but all the houses are new...

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                          • #14
                            Ann Rackham was Christmas Fryer's second wife...Lucy died Norfolk Record Office NOAH on line has some legal papers signed by Christmas Fryer...

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                            • #15
                              Lets hope that Alison gets a swift reply back to you Barrie.
                              Last edited by Darksecretz; 03-03-12, 20:42.
                              Julie
                              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                              .......I find dead people

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                              • #16
                                WOW!! you lot are amazing!

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                                  Lets hope that Alison gets a swift reply back to you Barrie.
                                  Sorry did you ask me a question Barrie?
                                  Alison

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                                  • #18
                                    Might be a fostering arrangement from the Bermondsey (St Olave's) Workhouse...Lawson Scarnell Fryer son of farmer Christmas Fryer of Hempnall Norfolk and my Gt Gt Grandfather had a son William Lawson Fryer who was my Gt Grandfather and he was born in Bermondsey Workhouse 11th May 1852 and died in Chester Road Walthamstow 1940....Lawson Scarnell Fryer also had Charles Jonathan Fryer born Southwark 1862...Elizabeth A Fryer born Southwark 1865 and Sarah J Fryer born Southwark 1868... Lawson Scarnell Fryer my Gt Gt Grandfather and his family at a time lived in Storey Street the Borough and then at White Hart Yard which I think is Borough..My Grandfather Jack Fryer son of William Lawson Fryer told me that his Grandfather had a fish barrow which he kept in White Hart Yard and buried some money under a cobblestone and that his father ie Jack Fryer's father William Lawson Fryer had dug the stone up and kept the money after the old man died...My Grandfather Jack Fryer told me that his fishhawking Grandfather was Irish and for years I thought Fryer was Irish but I see now Grandad Jack Fryer must have meant the father of Mary Ann Pennington born Holborn in 1855...William Lawson Fryer Married Mary Ann Pennington at St James Bermondsey on 26th March 1876...She died in Edmonton September 1897..I have posted some photos of the Fryers on "Roots Chat" website which can often be reached by Googling "Fryer Family of Hempnall"...William Lawson Fryer and family lived in Keaton Road Bermondsey and aged 29 he is described in a Census as a "Pensioner"...His trade was boilermaker but he was for a while in the Royal Navy and was invalided out hence the Pension..William Lawson Fryer joined the Royal Navy on 11th May 1870 but was inavlided out on 4th July 1874...

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                                    • #19
                                      No I don't think so?

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                                      • #20
                                        The ancestral home of Lawson Scarnell Fryer and Christmas Fryer and Lawson Scarnell Junior was Chestnut Tree Farm, "The Green" Hempnall Norfolk...It was the farm owned by Lawson Scarnell Senior who died in 1808....His widow lived on for another 40 years...There is a will and other docs on "Norfolk Sources" under Probate being the will of Lawson Scarnell (1808) and various affidavits by Christmas Fryer regarding his deceased wife's portion of the Estate which something happened to in 1849....The Estate was not to be distributed until Mrs Lawson Scarnell died....Thus Christmas Fryer's kids by his wife Lucy daughter of Lawson Scarnell Senior had to wait until 1849 for their money...About six of them shared about £100...."The Green" Hempnall in those days meant "Great Green" now known as "Silver Green" and so Chestnut Tree Farm about 9.50 acres is today Chestnute Tree Farm, Road Green, Hempnall, Norfolk. The main farm and house and plot over the road is occupupied by Dye's timber yard and saw mills..You can get it on Google-Earth....Christmas Fryer and second wife Ann Rackham lived in Wortwill near Harleston, Norfolk in 1861...Christmas died in Norwich 2nd Feb 1874..Christmas Fryer's father was William Fryer who married Mary Bowles possibly daughter of Thomas Bowles of Hempnall...With his he had Thomas Fryer, William Fryer Jnr and Charles ledger Fryer...William Fryer Senior married again Bridget (Biddy) Beckett...She was the mother of Christmas Fryer...Christmas Fryer's half-brother Thomas Fryer owned a property in Hempnall in 1802 in which lived a "William Fryer"...William Fryer Senior died in the village poor cottage just over the road from St Margaret's Hempnall aged 75-76 in 1842-3....Thomas Fryer, half brother to Christmas Fryer, made good in Great Yarmouth marrying Keziah Bultitude (See Mormon website)...They had a son Hezekiah Thomas Fryer baptised St Nicholas Gt Yarmouth 1813...Also a daughter Mary Ann Fryer who married John Thomas Clifton (See Mormons)...They had a son Hezekiah Thomas Fryer Clifton born 1828 died Teddington/Kingston on Thames 1915....The will of Thomas Fryer 1849 is on "Norfolk Sources" website under Probate...He owned four tenements, a blacksmith and wheelwwight's with accomodation above, a house in Ferry Boat Row and also a share in Great Yarmouth Cemetery where he had a family tomb or vault...The will can be viewed and save and I find it easier to read in the programme "Paint"....Let me know if you want more!!!!

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