1911 ETHEL ANNIE LEONARD - fresh pair of eyes needed please

[Mary from Italy]

It isn't just a burial search you've done: the pre-1812 registers have baptisms, marriages and burials all in the same register, and that entry for Mary Leonard with parents Thomas and Mary is her baptism (16/5/1811 at St Mary, Newington).

The only burials of Mar* Leonrad between 1810 and 1812 are these, which seem to be irrelevant:

- Maria Leonard, infant, buried Clerkenwell, 1810, abode: Aylesbury St.

- Mary Leonard, 74, buried Bermondsey, 1812, abode: workhouse.

[Liz from Lancs]

Thanks Mary...I knew it couldn't be right and sorry to have caused you work...I am tidying up loose ends .

[Mary from Italy]

No problem

[Liz from Lancs]

The death cert my neighbour wanted on Percy's wife has arrived. Here is the transcript:

Death cert: Mary Maria Sarah Reynolds died 20/1/1906 aged 27 yrs at 105 Leam Terrace East Leamington UD. Cause: Phthisis 12 months (TB).
Occupation: Wife of Percy Albert Reynolds, a Joiner (Master).

Informant: P A Reynolds, widower of deceased present at death, address: 105 Leam Terrace East Leamington, registered on 23/1/1906. Sub reg district: Leamington, Warwick.

They must have been living with his widowed mother as that was her address in 1901 (with Percy unmarried then).

[Liz from Lancs]

As Mary from Italy on here knows, I have been sent some pages from a book, which includes the Leonards, by the direct descendant of Mary Leonard bap 1811, dau of Thomas.

Been asked to check out some of the information in it. Mary Stubbs, Mary's mother, is said to have been born in Wales on 14/2/1791 to parents Samuel and Mary Stubbs, born in the 1760s. However, we know from 1841 census she was born in Middx. IGI search has found her in London:

Family Search IGI: Mary Stubbs Bap: 14/2/1791 St Sepulchre, London
Birth: 10/8/1790 Parents: Samuel & Mary Stubbs

Mary - could you see if this bap is on Ancestry? I can't access the early ones. My subs to Ancestry expire on 11 Oct....

[Mary from Italy]

If I remember rightly, there was another Mary Stubbs living in Wales on the 1841 census - perhaps somebody's mixed up the two of them.

It doesn't look as though the baptism's on Ancestry; in fact I can't see any baptisms at all for St. Sepulchre in 1791, only burials.

[Liz from Lancs]

Thanks for checking it out Mary. I've tried tracking any other children of Mary & Samuel Stubbs - none at St Sepulchre.

John Stubbs bap: 7/10/1782 St Giles, Cripplegate, London
Parents: Samuel & Mary Stubbs
Indexing Project (Batch): C02577-7 System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film: 380208

All the other marriages etc between a Samuel and Mary are in Cheshire. Did check the census but only Cheshire Samuel in 1841 I think.

Well, at least been able to clear up Mary Stubbs' place of birth as the bap date matches.

[Mary from Italy]

John's baptism is on Ancestry. Samuel was a whitesmith.

[Liz from Lancs]

Thanks for that Mary. Have tried to follow a John Stubbs through 1841 census and offspring. One of the options in Poplar was a carpenter/joiner.

Don't laugh but I have tried to see if there are any links to George Stubbs, the painter, as hoped by the Australian author. I have his bap:

George Stubbs bap:31/8/1724 Liverpool. Fa: John Stubbs
Indexing Project (Batch): C16141-2 System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film: 1068887 Ref: item 3

Ties in with his biog on various websites. Also got his possible siblings. There is a one name study website with an e mail address for Stubbs. Don't know if have to pay but I will e mail them to see if can shed light on our Stubbs.

http://www.one-name.org/profiles/stubbs.html

I am then going to put the Stubbs to bed. Have uploaded all the docs etc onto a USB stick for my neighbour to put on her computer which I will give her when she returns from hols.

It has been quite a journey from that first post I made on Ethel Leonard 1911 census . Want to thank everyone for all their help. I have learned so much on the way too.

[Liz from Lancs]

Mary - if you are looking in - a last favour. Jane from the One Name Stubbs website has asked me for death of Thomas Leonard's second wife. We know she probably died between the 1881 and 1891 census. In 1881, she lived with daughter at:

10 Ockenden Rd Civil parish/reg district: Islington Sub-reg district: Islington East.

Daughter called Margaret J Lewis.

In checking Ancestry, I note there is a probate entry for a Margaret Leonard 1885. Could you check it for me as I can't access it. My subs finish tonight for Ancestry so quickly tying up these loose ends.

Many thanks.

[Mary from Italy]

I'm afraid that Margaret isn't connected - she lived in Monmouthshire, Wales, and appointed her nephew William Gibbon as executor.

[Mary from Italy]

This might be her death if she stayed in the Islington area:

Deaths Jun 1898
Leonard Margaret 82 Islington 1b 123

In which case this will be her in 1891:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=6598&path=London.Islington.Islington+South+West.42a.18

[Mary from Italy]

Can't find a matching burial for that 1898 death in the Ancestry London records.

There is a burial for a Margart Leonard aged 70 at St. Marylebone, Westminster on 24/4/1886, but it doesn't give her address, and I can't find a death to match that burial.

[Liz from Lancs]

Thank you, Mary, for checking that probate entry. I toyed with that Marylebone death too but I can't see her going there from Islington - I have kept a record of it just in case.

The 1891 census you found on Mgt Leonard: I have just checked that Haymarket is in Westminster so the Margaret Leonard you found in 1891 could be our Mgt Leonard who was born in Westminster.

After the 1881 census, her son-in-law died (Wm Lewis). They must have had to give up the family home in Islington. The daughter is lodging in Clerkenwell by 1891. As they had lived together for so many years, it is hard to see why they would now be apart - unless they couldn't find lodgings together...or fell out.

I know you tried to find her death before and we just couldn't find any record conclusive enough. Thank you for trying again. I think Jane was trying to see if there was a family grave at Kelsal Green, to backtrack to Thomas's first wife, Mary, and to establish that her burial is the Kelsal Green one.

My neighbour should be back from her hols soon and I will see if she is willing to risk getting a death cert on Mary Leonard.

[aussiemazzie]

My great great grandmother was Louisa Mary Ann leonard. Have her marriage certificate and her parents are Thomas Leonard & Mary Stubbs. Louisa married William Brine Harris in Hobart Tasmania 13th Dec 1852. She was 19 and he was 42yrs. She came out on "The Mallacca" in 1851 with Emily and Caroline to be with sisters who had come before them. Louisa Harris died in Sydney on 2nd July 1906. William & Louisa had 3 children born in Hobart and 4 children born in Launceston. My great grandmother Louisa Caroline Jane was their 4th child born 12th Feb 1861. I was born 12th Feb 19XX. I have been trying to find out how Louisa met William and went to Tasmania as her other sisters were in the Monaro region.
Hope this little bit of info helps and hope to hear more. Frederick is brother to Louisa.
Mazzie

[Liz from Lancs]

Hi Mazzie - Welcome to FTF. I helped my neighbour with her tree so the Leonards are hers not mine. Will copy your info in a mail to her. She isn't a member here - will e mail you.

Mazzie - you might want to remove your date of birth from your post as this forum is open to the web etc. .

[Darksecretz]

have removed your YOB Mazzie, as posting it on the WWW might cause you some issues.

[Sally E]

The death cert my neighbour wanted on Percy's wife has arrived. Here is the transcript:

Death cert: Mary Maria Sarah Reynolds died 20/1/1906 aged 27 yrs at 105 Leam Terrace East Leamington UD. Cause: Phthisis 12 months (TB).
Occupation: Wife of Percy Albert Reynolds, a Joiner (Master).

Informant: P A Reynolds, widower of deceased present at death, address: 105 Leam Terrace East Leamington, registered on 23/1/1906. Sub reg district: Leamington, Warwick.

They must have been living with his widowed mother as that was her address in 1901 (with Percy unmarried then).

Hi Liz, I was just going to send for my great grandmothers death certificate when I came across this information you posted sometime ago - as I didn't know the reason for her death. Only this week I have discovered that Mary Maria S not only gave birth to my grandmother Winifred Webley in 1899 she went on to have another child Ethel Annie Leonard in 1904. I was therefore very interested to learn that you neighbour is Ethel's daughter. My mother - Winifred's daughter- remembers the Webley family and use to visit 103 Leam Terrace as a young child in the 30s/40s. I would be interested to hear if your neighbour knows anything else about Ethel or her family. I look forward to hearing from you ..and your neighbour! Sally

[Liz from Lancs]

Sally - my neighbour's husband has recently died and her house is up for sale, etc. Not a good time to approach her about this.

When I get time, I will check out some of my research (which I hope is still on a USB stick) and be in touch.