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England family in Padstow Cornwall

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  • England family in Padstow Cornwall

    Hello there.

    My name is Robert England and I am a relatively new member to the FTF. I have a request in that I need to find out some information with regards to some family members who were born in Padstow. These are the following names, and following the forum rules, all persons mentioned are no longer living:

    William John Collins (my grandfather) 1904-1941, verified by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.
    Robert England 1890-1917, verified once again by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.
    Grace Worden England 1882- ????, She married in Totnes apparently, to whom, this remains a mystery at the moment.
    Mary Louisa England 1895-????, Have no information at the moment.
    Cordelia Ann England 1887-????, I found only one marriage and that was in Totnes (see Grace England) so, it seems that the two sisters moved to Totnes. (Mar 1917.)
    Mary Jane England 1885-????, I have found no information for her death, but she was married to a Davey.
    Dorothy Rowse England 1899-1929, I think she may have died alone without marrying.
    Caroline Ann England 1891-????, I think she may have married a "Williams back in June 1913.
    Nellie England 1894-????, I think she married a "Phillips" in 1924.
    Louisa England 1896-????, No further information.
    Samuel Collins England 1898-????, I think he married a "Clarke" back in 1924.
    Mildred England 1900-????, I think she married a "Watson" back in 1931.

    All of the following Englands were born to a Mr Josiah(or Joseph England) and Mrs Betsy Tresidder. One last thing is that I have some information on Josiah(or Joseph) England and that he was born in 1812 or around that time. He was born in Plymouth, Devon. What I also need to find out is if he had any brothers or sisters. Unfortunately, until I know who his parents were, I cannot help.

    I would be most grateful if you could help me, and if not, then I know you would have tried your best with the limited information that I have given you.

    Regards

    Robert England
    http://www.mancunianreds.com/
    Names looking for:
    ENGLAND (Cornwall especially Padstow or St Columb Mjr and Stoke Damerel, Devonport, Devon) TRESIDDER (Cornwall) PRYNN (Cornwall) WORDEN (Cornwall)
    "Nothing great is easy" Captain Matthew Webb

  • #2
    Just a quickie - I was surprised that your Josiah/Joseph born around 1812 seems to have been quite old when he was having these children in the 1880s and 1890s - though not impossible I suppose

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by norwayjane View Post
      Just a quickie - I was surprised that your Josiah/Joseph born around 1812 seems to have been quite old when he was having these children in the 1880s and 1890s - though not impossible I suppose
      Well spotted. In fact, the parents of the children were Mr Robert England who was born around 1859 and Cordelia England(Worden). Robert England (né 1859) is in fact the son of Mr Josiah (or Joseph England.) Many thanks for spotting the error.

      Robert
      http://www.mancunianreds.com/
      Names looking for:
      ENGLAND (Cornwall especially Padstow or St Columb Mjr and Stoke Damerel, Devonport, Devon) TRESIDDER (Cornwall) PRYNN (Cornwall) WORDEN (Cornwall)
      "Nothing great is easy" Captain Matthew Webb

      Comment


      • #4
        Robert, you have put this in our Record Office lookup request section - which is fine - but I think you may get more help if we move it over to our Research Qs & As section.
        The reason I say this is that information about most, if not all of these people, should be available online via census or BMD/parish register websites.

        I am moving it over for the time being, we can always move it back if the only option is a Record Office lookup.
        Elaine







        Comment


        • #5
          Can you explain exactly what information you are looking for or we could just be finding information that you have already got.

          As an example the first entry:
          William John Collins (my grandfather) 1904-1941, verified by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.
          The CWGC site shows he was killed on 23 August 1917 and is remembered on the Tyne Cot Memorial. He served with the 6th Batallion Somerset Light Infantry. His parents were Robert and Cordelia Ann England, of Public Rooms, Church Lane, Padstow, Cornwall.

          What else do you want know?
          Do you want census information - do you want to find his birth registration so you could order a certificate - have you looked to see if his WW1 Army service records are available on Ancestry ... etc.
          Elaine







          Comment


          • #6
            Josiah England age 24 (1817) married Betsy Tresidder age 20 (1821) 22nd Feb 1841 Padstow.
            her father Thomas, his father Robert.
            Moggie

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
              Can you explain exactly what information you are looking for or we could just be finding information that you have already got.

              As an example the first entry:
              William John Collins (my grandfather) 1904-1941, verified by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.
              The CWGC site shows he was killed on 23 August 1917 and is remembered on the Tyne Cot Memorial. He served with the 6th Batallion Somerset Light Infantry. His parents were Robert and Cordelia Ann England, of Public Rooms, Church Lane, Padstow, Cornwall.

              What else do you want know?
              Do you want census information - do you want to find his birth registration so you could order a certificate - have you looked to see if his WW1 Army service records are available on Ancestry ... etc.
              It was my great-uncle Robert England who died in 1917. My grand-father William JC was on HMS Drifter Jewel before it sank in the Irish Sea on the 18th of May 1941. I guess the information as you quite rightly stated can be found on any census returns from 1841 onwards or via FreeBMD search. I guess I can work it out from there. My problem is that I need to find out the exact dates of Mr Josiah(or Joseph) England who married Betsy Tresidder. This is the only stumbling block for me at the moment as there are many Englands in the census returns from 1841 that I do not even recognise. Is it because he had brothers, sisters etc etc. The information I have for Mr Josiah(or Joseph) England is that he was definitely born in Plymouth, Devon around 1812. He married Betsy Tresidder around March 1841 according to a family members family tree. The only problem is that we are both pretty much stuck as to who the parents of Mr Josiah(or Joseph) were. If I can find out, then I can use another site on the Internet to see if he had any brothers or sisters. So, I guess I do need some help with the Parish records.

              Many thanks in advance.

              Robert England
              http://www.mancunianreds.com/
              Names looking for:
              ENGLAND (Cornwall especially Padstow or St Columb Mjr and Stoke Damerel, Devonport, Devon) TRESIDDER (Cornwall) PRYNN (Cornwall) WORDEN (Cornwall)
              "Nothing great is easy" Captain Matthew Webb

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by maudarby View Post
                Josiah England age 24 (1817) married Betsy Tresidder age 20 (1821) 22nd Feb 1841 Padstow.
                her father Thomas, his father Robert.
                Moggie
                I think Moggie has answered one of your questions with this find. Not sure on the source, maybe Cornwall OPC or possibly freeREG.
                Elaine







                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
                  I think Moggie has answered one of your questions with this find. Not sure on the source, maybe Cornwall OPC or possibly freeREG.
                  I am currently doing some research on the matter and I must admit, it is difficult for an amateur like myself. Nevertheless, I am trying to confirm some dates for Mr Robert England(supposed father of Mr Josiah or Joseph England.) For example, Josiah was born in Devon in 1812. The only Robert England I can find that could be close is a Robert England who got married in 1794 to a Agnis Selley in Devon. That is one route I could possibly take. Another is that I have a Robert England who was born in 1790 in Stoke Damerel to a William and Elizabeth England. It is very possible that he could be the father of Josiah but he woul have had to been married at a young age.

                  The only key here is the mother of Josiah and that will unlock this puzzle.

                  Many thanks Elaine.
                  http://www.mancunianreds.com/
                  Names looking for:
                  ENGLAND (Cornwall especially Padstow or St Columb Mjr and Stoke Damerel, Devonport, Devon) TRESIDDER (Cornwall) PRYNN (Cornwall) WORDEN (Cornwall)
                  "Nothing great is easy" Captain Matthew Webb

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by maudarby View Post
                    Josiah England age 24 (1817) married Betsy Tresidder age 20 (1821) 22nd Feb 1841 Padstow.
                    her father Thomas, his father Robert.
                    Moggie
                    Hi Moggie!!! Many thanks for your information. Do you have any sources as I have exhausted all possibilities with FreeBMD and the LDS. Although I have Josiah England being born in 1814 and not 1817. I will get to the bottom of this...\o/
                    http://www.mancunianreds.com/
                    Names looking for:
                    ENGLAND (Cornwall especially Padstow or St Columb Mjr and Stoke Damerel, Devonport, Devon) TRESIDDER (Cornwall) PRYNN (Cornwall) WORDEN (Cornwall)
                    "Nothing great is easy" Captain Matthew Webb

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi
                      Sorry I should have said where the marriage info came from. It came from the LDS pilot site & were you to purchase the certificate I am sure the details would be the same. When Josiah married Betsy he said he was 24 years old. Perhaps he lied about his age.

                      Moggie

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by maudarby View Post
                        Hi
                        Sorry I should have said where the marriage info came from. It came from the LDS pilot site & were you to purchase the certificate I am sure the details would be the same. When Josiah married Betsy he said he was 24 years old. Perhaps he lied about his age.

                        Moggie
                        I see where you are coming from, and please don't apologise, there is no harm done. It is just that there are conflicts of information. Here is one link:

                        https://www.familysearch.org/search/records#count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AJoseph~ %2Bsurname%3AEngland~ %2Bresidence_place%3APadstow~

                        and here is another:

                        Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


                        There seems to be one Joseph England who was born in 1817 and a Josiah England who was born in 1812, and who were married to a Betsy.

                        So, you see the problems I am having at the moment. I guess I will need to do buy the marriage certificate for Joseph(or Josiah) and find out who is who and what is what.

                        Many thanks Moggie.
                        Last edited by mancunianred; 06-09-11, 18:37. Reason: Should have used "married", instead of "born."
                        http://www.mancunianreds.com/
                        Names looking for:
                        ENGLAND (Cornwall especially Padstow or St Columb Mjr and Stoke Damerel, Devonport, Devon) TRESIDDER (Cornwall) PRYNN (Cornwall) WORDEN (Cornwall)
                        "Nothing great is easy" Captain Matthew Webb

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just been back to check the marriage date as Betsy in 1841 age 19 is still listed as Tresidder living with ? her mother Mary age 60. The census was taken on 6th June & the marriage took place on : 22 Feb 1841.
                          Moggie

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by maudarby View Post
                            Just been back to check the marriage date as Betsy in 1841 age 19 is still listed as Tresidder living with ? her mother Mary age 60. The census was taken on 6th June & the marriage took place on : 22 Feb 1841.
                            Moggie
                            I cannot confirm as to whether she was living with her mother at the time but, you are correct in saying that her mother was called Mary Tresidder (née Prynn.)
                            Is this from the following census:

                            Genuki.

                            I have this information from the 1881 census which states that:


                            186,,1,Joseph England,Head,M,69,,Formerly Sailor,Plymouth Devon,, ,,,Betsy England,Wife,M,,64,,Padstow Cornwall,, ,,,Nathaniel England,Son,S,16,,Sailor,Padstow Cornwall,, ,,,William J. England,Grnson,,9,,Scholar,Padstow Cornwall,

                            This would mean that Joseph England was born in 1812 in Plymouth.
                            This would mean that Betsy England was born around 1817 in Padstow.

                            What do you think about this?

                            Here is the link for you:



                            Many thanks

                            Robert
                            http://www.mancunianreds.com/
                            Names looking for:
                            ENGLAND (Cornwall especially Padstow or St Columb Mjr and Stoke Damerel, Devonport, Devon) TRESIDDER (Cornwall) PRYNN (Cornwall) WORDEN (Cornwall)
                            "Nothing great is easy" Captain Matthew Webb

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The 1881 info is correct but in 1871 Joseph/Josiah birth details were born c1804 Padstow.
                              Although when he died in 1881 shortly after the census his age was given as 69 (1812)
                              These are the only census that I can find him on; I guess he was away at sea.
                              Even Betsy's birth year fluctuates from census to census.
                              1851 born c1822 / 1861 born c1818 / 1871 born c1821/1881 born c1817/ 1891 born c 1822 /
                              1901 born c1821.
                              Moggie

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by maudarby View Post
                                The 1881 info is correct but in 1871 Joseph/Josiah birth details were born c1804 Padstow.
                                Although when he died in 1881 shortly after the census his age was given as 69 (1812)
                                These are the only census that I can find him on; I guess he was away at sea.
                                Even Betsy's birth year fluctuates from census to census.
                                1851 born c1822 / 1861 born c1818 / 1871 born c1821/1881 born c1817/ 1891 born c 1822 /
                                1901 born c1821.
                                Moggie
                                Many thanks for the information once again Moggie. After reading a great deal about Family trees, it is true that we should treat the DOBs and ages with caution as they maybe a few years either way. Nevertheless, whatever happens, it sounds like the person I am trying to find. Nevertheless, I still need to find some information on other Englands who might have been brothers/sisters of Joseph, and since it is likely that he was born in Plymouth, I think it would be a good idea to search out all births in that area with the same parents. I was wondering if you know the batch number for that particular area. Here is the batch number and the Englands listed on it page 144:

                                Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


                                Many thanks Moggie.

                                Robert
                                http://www.mancunianreds.com/
                                Names looking for:
                                ENGLAND (Cornwall especially Padstow or St Columb Mjr and Stoke Damerel, Devonport, Devon) TRESIDDER (Cornwall) PRYNN (Cornwall) WORDEN (Cornwall)
                                "Nothing great is easy" Captain Matthew Webb

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Baptism for Betsey Tresidder 17th Sept 1819 Padstow parents Thomas & Mary. LDS pilot site.

                                  Moggie

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Just found Joseph in 1861, born c 1813 Plymouth.He was an Able seaman on board the "Narayana".
                                    I wonder if we can find anymore info about the vessel? I just assumed that he was a fisherman.
                                    I have saved the page that gives the info about vessel. If you send me a PM with your email address I can send it to you.Click on my name & this gives an option to send me a message, don't post email address on the thread.
                                    Moggie

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by maudarby View Post
                                      Baptism for Betsey Tresidder 17th Sept 1819 Padstow parents Thomas & Mary. LDS pilot site.

                                      Moggie
                                      This would suggest that she was 62 when the 1881 census was done. Do you think it is a good idea to use batch numbers for the parishes to narrow down the search? As stated above, I found many Englands listed for Padstow. So, if I can carry on and work my way outwards, I should get somewhere.

                                      Thanks.

                                      Robert
                                      http://www.mancunianreds.com/
                                      Names looking for:
                                      ENGLAND (Cornwall especially Padstow or St Columb Mjr and Stoke Damerel, Devonport, Devon) TRESIDDER (Cornwall) PRYNN (Cornwall) WORDEN (Cornwall)
                                      "Nothing great is easy" Captain Matthew Webb

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Have you made contact with the OPC (online parish clerk) for the area in Cornwall? - http://www.cornwall-opc.org/Par_new/n_p/padstow.php
                                        Joy

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