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  • William Frederick Clarke of Oxford???

    Yes, the mysterious William Frederick Clarke!!! He is one of my very big brick walls. On the 1881 – 1911 censuses he insists that we is born in the city of Oxford in about 1853, although his date of birth from other records (marriage & death certificates etc) show he could have been born anytime from 3/10/1850 - 5/4/1853. His marriage certificate names his father as Stephen Clarke, a farmer or farrier, but I (or actually we – about 4 of us cousins have tried at various times) have never been able to track down a birth certificate or baptism record that matches. There’s no sign of him in the censuses before 1881 either – having tried every combination of Clarke, Clark, Clerk, Clack etc etc etc!! We know he was in Cardiff by 1876 when he married, then he’s easy to follow. Family legend has it that he had a brother who was a jockey? ran away from home when he was young?? went to work on Nelson’s ship HMS Victory as a powder monkey??? and gave the brass plaque that read “Here Nelson fell” to one of his children???? (it really does get a bit ridiculous towards the end!!).

    Once in Cardiff, he was a Stonemason & Bricklayer working on the building of the big power station chimneys and St Donat's Castle.

    Really hope one of you out there has a connection & knows of his parentage!!

    Many thanks all.

  • #2
    Hi Sue,

    welcome to the forum.. I have found him in the 1881 census with his Father in Law, Henry Thomas, have you looked into this family prior to the 1881 just to see if William is lodging with them before?.

    did the witness' names on his marriage certificate help at all? when he died did he leave a will at all?
    Julie
    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

    .......I find dead people

    Comment


    • #3
      Welcome to FTF, Sue.

      I've had a play with this problem, too.

      I thought I'd found him in 1861, but he'd have had to have a father called William, and not Stephen.

      Christine
      Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

      Comment


      • #4
        The only Clarke from Oxfordshire who was a Jockey which I can find, is: James Clarke born 1854 Thame Oxfordshire, he was living in Epsom in 1881, but tracing him back his father was Henry a Tailor.

        Comment


        • #5
          There doesn't appear to be a Stephen Clark(e) (of a suitable age to be William Frederick's father) anywhere in Oxfordshire, and no evidence of one e.g. no marriage or death.

          I wonder if William Frederick changed his surname at some point, as there's no birth registered in his name?

          Do you know anything else about him, any little snippet may help. You have mentioned a brother, did he have other siblings, and do you know their names?

          As Darksecretz asked - can you post the witnesses names if they may help us to help you.

          Comment


          • #6
            :o
            His marriage certificate names his father as Stephen Clarke, a farmer or farrier
            I take it you can't make out which it says. If you post a section of the certificate we can try to work it out - it would be helpful to find Stephen, and the correct occupation would help.

            scuda
            Pitman / Pittman in North Glos (Didbrook, Prestbury, Longhope, Tewkesbury, Stow, Cirencester, etc), London & Australia

            Comment


            • #7
              The Jockey James had a brother William but he was just William Clarke and registered in Jan-March 1855 Thame 3a 465
              Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

              Comment


              • #8
                it could be that he 'invented' the Frederick name, to make him sound more important. We do need Sue to come back though and add any other bits of info she knows.
                Julie
                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                .......I find dead people

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi All,
                  Thanks so much for all the replies.

                  Yes Julie, his Father in Law, Henry Thomas, I have looked into the family before the 1881 but he was a merchant seaman and William only married in 1876. He didn't leave a will - unfortunately he died an alcoholic in an asylum in Caerleon in 1919. The marriage witnesses were I Hasell ? and S B Ridge ? - they are not very legible - I shall attach a copy of the certificate - then Scuda, can you take a look at his father's profession and tell me what you think please? Susan, I don't know of any siblings other than this brother from family legend and I am so hoping he didn't change his name!

                  I will go back through all my notes tonight to see if I can find out any more about him - but he definitely is a mystery before 1876!!

                  Thanks again all!

                  Sue



                  Family History001.jpg
                  Last edited by SueSquirrel; 15-08-11, 19:55.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    hi Sue,

                    the certificate isnt very clear to read is it? I downloaded it and zoomed in but it is difficult like you say to read whether its a Farrier or Farmer. I did notice though that the marriage says that "Married in the Register office, by the CERTIFICATE before me," now this is the first welsh marriage cert I have seen, so not sure what it means, (would it be a Marriage Licence?)
                    Julie
                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                    .......I find dead people

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      having zoomed in on the cert in picasa, i'm fairly sure now that it says FARMER, I compared the 'm' of Thomas with the occupation, and to me it does look like FARMER. so now we need to find a stephen clark in the 1861 census that is a farmer..
                      Julie
                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                      .......I find dead people

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        here we go, see if this works

                        Julie
                        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                        .......I find dead people

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          just as a side thought Sue, have you seen this? http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php...tent&task=view

                          might be worthwhile seeing if they have ships lists, and if he was ever ON the Victory, which might then prove/disprove the story.

                          ooohh have a look here!

                          Last edited by Darksecretz; 15-08-11, 21:15.
                          Julie
                          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                          .......I find dead people

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Julie,
                            LOL - yes, I thought I had found him too when I checked that - but that William Clarke was 31 at the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805, so not mine. I will have to try a find out if he is on any lists though.

                            Also, I think I have found out who one of the Marriage Witnesses is!! Sarah A Ridge - married Dec Qtr 1876 Cardiff 11a 477 compared to William - Dec Qtr 1876 Cardiff 11a 476 - so they must have literally grabbed a witness who was at the Registry Office waiting to get married!!! Typical!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Also, I think I have found out who one of the Marriage Witnesses is!! Sarah A Ridge - married Dec Qtr 1876 Cardiff 11a 477 compared to William - Dec Qtr 1876 Cardiff 11a 476 - so they must have literally grabbed a witness who was at the Registry Office waiting to get married!!! Typical!
                              You might well be right about that, but it is probably worth trying to check a bit further - there could still have been a relationship.

                              As to farmer or farrier, I see why you're not sure! I can't make it out either.

                              scuda
                              Pitman / Pittman in North Glos (Didbrook, Prestbury, Longhope, Tewkesbury, Stow, Cirencester, etc), London & Australia

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I have two brothers marrying on the same day. Each bride and groom were the witnesses to to the other marriage.
                                Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  just parking these here so we know where he is:

                                  1881: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...1wales&indiv=1
                                  Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 5283; Folio: 81; Page: 60; Line: ; GSU roll: 1342271.

                                  1891:http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...1wales&indiv=1
                                  Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4400; Folio 115; Page 13; GSU roll: 6099510.


                                  1901:http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...1wales&indiv=1
                                  Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 4962; Folio: 92; Page: 16.
                                  Julie
                                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                  .......I find dead people

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    have you tried contacting these people to see if they can help you Sue?

                                    Julie
                                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                    .......I find dead people

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Have I missed something, Julie? I see he was a stonemason, but was he also a freemason?

                                      scuda
                                      Pitman / Pittman in North Glos (Didbrook, Prestbury, Longhope, Tewkesbury, Stow, Cirencester, etc), London & Australia

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I don't have any evidence to suggest he was a freemason - would a stonemason around his time likely to be one?

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