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Brough/ Clarke mystery ???

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  • Brough/ Clarke mystery ???

    I would really appreciate another pair of eyes looking at my mystery regarding this chappie.....

    Francis Bryant Brough b1872 Wolverhampton Staffs.

    1881 12 Junction St Wolverhampton
    FRANCIS CLARKE, 9, Grandson (with grandfather John Brough)

    1891 19 Wattville St Handsworth
    FRANCIS CLARKE, 19, Grandson, Brass founder ( With Grandfather,Aunt & cousin)

    1901 19 Wattville St Handsworth
    FRANK BROUGH, 29, Grandson, Brass Founder ( with grandfather,aunt,cousin & LAVINIA CLARKE, W, 47...but there is a 1872 marriage in Wolverhampton 1872 between Elizabeth Brough & Bryan Clarke)

    Now this is where the mystery deepens.....

    1911 34 Sandy Lane Birmingham
    FRANCIS BRYAN BROUGH,42, Brass finisher, b Wolverhampton
    Laura Brough, 42, Married 21 years. b Kidderminster
    Arthur Brough, 20, b Birmingham
    Lawrence Victor Brough,13, b Birmingham.


    So do think you the Francis Bryan Brough on the 1911 is the same one named Clarke on the 1881???? I do not have any certs to confirm any of the above info.

    Many thanks & I look forward to your thoughts....

    Margaret.
    Last edited by skylark; 07-03-11, 19:14. Reason: additional info
    Family Names : HALE, GREEN, BROUGH, HARRIS, FARMER, REEVES, MINCHIN, CORNISH, WARD.

  • #2
    As it shows they had been married for 21 years, have you found the wife and children in 1901 and 1891?

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    • #3
      No...I cannot put this couple together at all...& of course in 1901 Frank is still with his grandfather & clearly single !!!

      Margaret.
      Family Names : HALE, GREEN, BROUGH, HARRIS, FARMER, REEVES, MINCHIN, CORNISH, WARD.

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      • #4
        there is a marriage for a William Brough and a Laura Bowen in Sep 1887 Stafford 6B 32

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        • #5
          how about this a
          Frank Brough marries a Laura Newell in Mar 1889 Alderbury 5A 264

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          • #6
            Been out all day and now my internet connection is playing up so cannot do the search for the wife and children in 1891 & 1901. That's definately where I would start to try and put them together.

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            • #7
              are you going up the tree or down? if frank and laura are your ancestors, a birth for the child of theirs will be the best stop for her maiden name. and then the marriage, which should list fathers names, unless he was illegitimate?

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              • #8
                I am actually going sidewards !!! They are not in my direct line so I am not keen to be spending money on them ( I do not mind the time) It is just the change of surname that is interesting me...plus the fact that Frank is always living with his grandfather, never found him with his parents at all.

                Margaret.
                Family Names : HALE, GREEN, BROUGH, HARRIS, FARMER, REEVES, MINCHIN, CORNISH, WARD.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Now here is mystery that I need help with please

                  I am chasing this 'ere chappie..but even finding out his REAL name is becoming a nightmare...HELP !!!

                  1881 Census: 12 Junction Street Wolverhampton Staffs.
                  John Brough, 58,
                  FRANCIS CLARKE 9, b Wolverhampton, grandson. ( No birth for Francis Clarke but there is one for FRANCIS BRYAN BROUGH)

                  1891 Cesnsus: 19 Wattville Street, Handsworth.
                  John Brough 68, Sarah A Radford 33, (daughter) & her son Harry, 12.
                  FRANCIS CLARKE, 19, Brassfounder, (Grandson).


                  1901 Census: 19 Wattville Street, Handsworth.
                  John Brough, 78. Sarah Radford & her son Harry.
                  FRANK BROUGH, 29, Brass Founder (Grandson)
                  Lavinia Clarke, widow, 47, (Daughter of John Brough) Note: She is a mystery asking for help another time !!!

                  1911 Census: 34, Sandy Lane Aston. Birmingham
                  FRANCIS BRYAN BROUGH, 42, b Wolverhampton. Brass Finisher.
                  Laura Brough, 42, Married 21 years, b Kidderminster.
                  Arthur Brough, 20, 1891, Motor Lamp Maker.
                  Lawrence Victor Brough, 13, 1898 b B'ham ( He died in WW1 but his name is given as Victor Lawrence Brough).

                  So that is my problem..is Frank Clarke actually Francis Bryan Brough ??? When did Francis Brough & Laura Marry? Where are Laura & her sons on the 1901 census?? Any help in unravelling this tangle will be much appreciated.

                  Margaret.
                  Family Names : HALE, GREEN, BROUGH, HARRIS, FARMER, REEVES, MINCHIN, CORNISH, WARD.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Margaret.
                    Are you working backwards on this one? ie which one of these is your direct ancestor? how did you get to 1911 census? Do you have any certs that point you in the right direction in the first place?
                    Sorry - lot of questions but need to know something positive to work on.
                    Kat

                    My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                    • #11
                      I take it you haven't got the birth certificate for Francis Bryan Brough?

                      Have you found him in any earlier censuses?

                      margaret

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                      • #12
                        Looks like that should be Francis Bryant Brough ? ( I thought Bryan was a bit too trendy for then)

                        Name: Francis Bryant Brough
                        Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1872
                        Registration district: Wolverhampton
                        Inferred County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands
                        Volume: 6b
                        Page: 503 (
                        Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 09-10-11, 19:09.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          As is usual I was going side ways !! I am related to the Broughs but not directly connected to Francis. I do not have the birth cert as yet. One of my Broughs married into the Clarke family but as Francis never actually lived with his parents it is not 100% as to who is parents were. As Francis changed his name from Clarke to Brough on the 1901 census I just jumped to the 1911 to try & find him & came up with Francis B Brough....

                          Margaret.
                          Family Names : HALE, GREEN, BROUGH, HARRIS, FARMER, REEVES, MINCHIN, CORNISH, WARD.

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                          • #14
                            Did he actually change his name or did the enumerator just assume he would have the same name as the head? Was Lavinia Clarke his mum?

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                            • #15
                              Lavinia had a twin called Catherine

                              1851

                              John Brough 27
                              Eliza Brough 29
                              Elizabeth Brough 3
                              Catherine Brough 4 MO
                              Eivina Brough 4 MO
                              Matilda Redale 22

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                              • #16
                                Lavinia was one of 6 siblings, but I thought it best not to muddy the waters by naming any that were not actually living with Francis on the censuses: Elizabeth Brough (sister) did actually marry a Bryan Clarke in 1872 but they are also a mystery as I cannot find them on any census !!! Lavinia married a James Harrison & by 1891 had 6 children...so it was surprising to find her with the name Clarke on the 1901 census ( she was indeed a widow as James Harrison died in 1892...but why is she not with any of her children ?) Yet another mystery !!! I just feel that if I can unravel the story of Francis Clarke/Brough then all the other pieces might fall into place...(FAT CHANCE !!!) I suppose it is possible that the enumerator made a mistake over the name, but in that case surely I would be able to find Francis Clarke on the 1911 census?

                                Margaret.
                                Family Names : HALE, GREEN, BROUGH, HARRIS, FARMER, REEVES, MINCHIN, CORNISH, WARD.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I don't know if this is a tangent that you're not interested in but having got nowhere with the Brough / Clarke mystery I thought I would look at the wife and children to see if that gave any clues.

                                  Firstly I'm pretty sure that the Arthur aged 20 in 1911 has WW1 pension records on Ancestry as Arthur Henry Brough



                                  No real clues in them other than he married Laura Davis in 1913 and one of the witnesses was Frank Brough

                                  I think this is Arthur and Lawrence in 1901. I haven't got a clue where the surname came from



                                  Florence Force head 31 Kidderminster married
                                  Francis B Force son 11
                                  Arthur H Force son 10
                                  Lawrence V Force son 3
                                  Minnie Barnett visitor 24

                                  and this is the family in 1891



                                  The mother is now Laura Webb living with her parents, surname Jeffrey.

                                  Possible marriage

                                  Laura Jeffrey and Francis William Webb Kidderminster Q/E June 1887

                                  So Laura Jeffrey became Webb and then Brough
                                  Jackie

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                                  • #18
                                    Jackie..I love tangents !! I am sure that you have cracked one mystery for me..I will be following up on the details you have found..the eldest lad has the name Francis B as well...INTERESTING !!! Thank you very much.. off to do some research....

                                    Margaret.
                                    Family Names : HALE, GREEN, BROUGH, HARRIS, FARMER, REEVES, MINCHIN, CORNISH, WARD.

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                                    • #19
                                      Jackie, I thought I would let you know that I have done some research following the brilliant info that you gave me yesterday ! It would appear that the 3 sons of Laura were from her 1st marriage to Francis Webb, and even though she never married Francis Bryan Brough all her sons took his name..also it was a lie on her part when she said on the 1911 census that she & Francis Bryan had been married for 20 years ( naughty girl) but it has meant I have wasted a long time in trying to find a marriage that never took place. I have got in touch with someone on Ancestry who has most of this family in their tree...so we will see where that takes me. I am not really any nearer to sorting out the Clarke/Brough name change but thanks to your help I have made giant steps in sorting out some of the tangles !!! I really have appreciated your help...many thanks again.
                                      Margaret.
                                      Family Names : HALE, GREEN, BROUGH, HARRIS, FARMER, REEVES, MINCHIN, CORNISH, WARD.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        You're very welcome Margaret and thanks for the update. They don't like to make it easy for us do they
                                        Jackie

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