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  • Brickwall in Blackburn, Lancashire

    Any suggestions on where to go from here. I'm trying to find out where in Ireland my great grandparents came from. I have their GRO wedding entry that states they were married at St. Anne's RC church in Blackburn. St. Anne's apparently is administered by Sacred Heart Church in Blackburn. I have emailed the paster, Father Michael Lavin, a week ago asking for help. I may not hear from him. Does anyone know how to get access to the parish records that must have more detailed info on where he came from. Or for that matter, anything else that would give me the town or parish in Ireland. Here's the email I sent to Fr. Lavin.

    I am researching my great grandparents and their ancestors. The farthest I can go back is to about 1856 when my ggrandfather arrived in England from Ireland. I have not been able to find any records that list his specific place of birth. Since he married his wife Bridget at St. Anne’s church in Blackburn I was hoping that there are documents in the archives about this couple. I have learned that your church, Sacred Heart, administers for that church. Would you be able to shed any light on the birth place of Michael Forbes? Were the Duffy’s members of the same church? Are there any documents that might identify where they came from?



    I have read that there was a fire at St. Anne’s in 2000. If everything was destroyed, would you know of any other place that I might find this information?



    What I know:

    Michael Frederick Forbes of 22 Griffin St, Witton married Bridget Duffy of 26 Havelock St, Witton on March 2, 1878 at St. Annes Roman Catholic church on France St., Blackburn



    Michael’s parents were William and Mary Forbes. Mary’s maiden name may have been Gavin. They would have been married in Ireland.



    Bridget’s parents were Patrick Duffy and Mary Cussack (Cusick). I know nothing of when they arrived in England or where in Ireland they came from.



    Michael and Bridget lived at various places in Blackburn until 1882 when they immigrated to America. They had three children in England. Mary born December 23, 1878, died November 11, 1880. William born January 1880, died November 6, 1880. Sarah born February 19, 1881, died in Cleveland, Ohio May 7, 1961. I have birth and death registers from the GRO. How would I find where the children were buried?



    Michael was born about 1845 somewhere in Ireland. The location is believed to be Galway. He immigrated to England around 1856 – 1860 with his parents and several siblings.



    Bridget was born September 22, 1853 in Ormskirk, Lancashire.

    Any help is greatly appreciated.

    Jude

  • #2
    Hello Jude,

    the deaths of the children were they in england? and do you have the death certs? if they died in England then you will have to try contacting the local council and see what cemeteries are local to the place of death/where they lived. its abit long winded but it could pay off.

    have you looked at www.familysearch.org?? the reason I ask is that Michaels death is on there, though it doesnt give a POB other than ireland that I can see at the moment.

    there is another Michael Forbes that marries a Bridget HIGGINS in ireland (see link below) and they also are about the same age as your Michael/Bridget (your Michaels death is also on the same link below)

    Julie
    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

    .......I find dead people

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, I have the death certs of the children. Both died of scarlet fever as well as Bridget's brother William Duffy. All in England. What do you mean by local council? Blackburn? The address given on the death cert is 64 Havelock St., Blackburn. Would their burials have been in a Catholic cemetery? Narrowing down the search.

      I know I have the right Michael and Bridget (Duffy) married in Blackburn.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by stjudeb View Post
        Michael was born about 1845 somewhere in Ireland. The location is believed to be Galway. He immigrated to England around 1856 – 1860 with his parents and several siblings.

        Have you ever found any of his siblings either in the British or US censuses ?, sometimes they can give place of birth.

        On looking on the 1861 census, where he and his parents and siblings were living in Wigan, I see he has siblings called Patrick, Mary and Sarah. There is a Patrick Forbes emigrating to America of the right age in 1863. I also see a Michael Forbes in the 1900 US Census, with wife Bridget and 7 children (Sarah being one of them). it does however say that he emigrated to America in 1860, with his wife emigrating in 1882 and Sarah emigrating in 1881. This would make sense, as he is nowhere to be found in the 1871 and 1881 census (Bridget is however, in lodgings in Blackburn with Sarah).

        Also, there is a website called Cemsearch http://cemsearch.co.uk/blackburn/blackburn.html . This shows 4 Forbes burials, I think it costs to get names, but all were in the same grave. The 2 youngest children died within a very short time of each other in November 1880 so this could be another option to look at for burial records.


        Hope I haven't given you information you already had and it is of some help

        Chris
        Last edited by Christine in Herts; 27-02-11, 23:42. Reason: Getting quote to work properly

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        • #5
          ps - have traced Mary Forbes (one of the siblings) through to the 1911 census, and the census tells me she was born in Dublin.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by stjudeb View Post
            Yes, I have the death certs of the children. Both died of scarlet fever as well as Bridget's brother William Duffy. All in England. What do you mean by local council? Blackburn? The address given on the death cert is 64 Havelock St., Blackburn. Would their burials have been in a Catholic cemetery? Narrowing down the search.

            I know I have the right Michael and Bridget (Duffy) married in Blackburn.
            Hi Jude,

            if you look at the link it is for Blackburn cemetery, they have a contact on that page for queries, so if you know the dates of the childrens deaths they may be able to help you

            Julie
            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

            .......I find dead people

            Comment


            • #7
              Michael went to the US with his brother John in the late 1860's. I don't know where and I don't know why he was not in the 1861 census with the rest of the family. John ended up in Ft. Scott Kansas. For some reason Michael went back to England. Not sure of the timing. In about 1882 he returned to Ft. Scott and Bridget followed later with Sarah. The court house in Ft. Scott burned down so most records are missing. I have only found Michael, Bridget and children in an 1885 Kansas census. Only says Ireland. There are city directories at the Library of Congress where I found John in multiple years but no listing for Michael. I don't know where he lived and had the addition 6-7 children there. They left for Cleveland Ohio around 1891.

              I wasn't able to follow Patrick anywhere. Where did you find Patrick emigrating to the US? I'll have to look again but I don't think he was in Ft. Scott. I found John's US passport application but again it doesn't say anything beyond Ireland. arggggg

              Interesting about Mary. I didn't see that. Sarah, Michael's sister was born in England. Wouldn't there be baptism records stating where the parents were born? When you join a church don't you have to prove you were baptised? Mary and Sarah never married, and stayed in England with their mother. Michael's father, William, died around the time of Michael and Bridget's marriage.

              The reason we think Michael was from Galway is because Bridget called him her "Galway bird". Would it mean anything else?

              Thank you, thank you, thank you for the link to CEMSEARCH. I ordered both Forbes and Duffy. 11-12 Duffys in 2 graves. wow. Would a family plot be considered one grave? I think I will contact the CEMSEARCH people to do a little research. And the Blackburn Library.

              This is great. Thank you so much.

              Jude

              Comment


              • #8
                In my (admittedly limited) experience, the Roman Catholic church is never very forthcoming with information unless you appear in person with folding money, lol.

                Having said that, it is also quite possible that St Anne's would hold no information about their origins, why would it? I also think it would be quite difficult, if not impossible, to pretend to be a Roman Catholic if you weren't, and any Priest would take it for granted that any adult had already been baptised into the faith.

                I can also tell you that the staff at Blackburn library are extremely helpful and always go the extra mile. Good luck.

                OC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Why do you say: I also think it would be quite difficult, if not impossible, to pretend to be a Roman Catholic if you weren't I hoped that maybe the church would have a register of some sort with more info than the gov't register. Do you have any ideas on how to find out where Michael came from in Ireland?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have a catholic marriage certificate for my great great grandparents, I know my ggg granny was an irish catholic, but it doesn't tell me where she came from in Ireland only her address in England. The only other thing I can offer you is to examine some of the geneology sites in ireland and work from Mary, seeing as she is the only one to say (herself via the 1911 census) that she came from Dublin.

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                    • #11
                      I found Patrick Forbes in ancestry.com, the american branch of ancestry.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by chrisj1961 View Post
                        I found Patrick Forbes in ancestry.com, the american branch of ancestry.
                        All versions of Ancestry share the same databases. What varies is the access you are permitted according to your subscription. So a UK Ancestry world sub. gives access all areas.
                        Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          bummer. Very swift response from CEMSEARCH but the reports on Forbes and Duffy in Blackburn cemetery are not my family. Sounds like I'm going to have to subscribe again to Ancestory.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Jude,

                            if you can get to your local libarary they should have free access to Ancestry Worldwide
                            Julie
                            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                            .......I find dead people

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Here's the Forbes report

                              PERSON No. 01
                              Mrs Agnes FORBES
                              Died Friday, March 31 1911, Aged 45
                              Born in the year 1866
                              Relationship to Head: Wife

                              PERSON No. 02
                              Mr Alexander FORBES
                              Died Monday, April 19 1926, Aged 66
                              Born in the year 1860
                              Relationship to Head: Head

                              PERSON No. 03
                              Mrs Jenney FORBES
                              Died Monday, April 21 1958, Aged 59
                              Born in the year 1899
                              Relationship to Head: Daughter In Law
                              Additional Information: Forename Spelling Is Correct

                              PERSON No. 04
                              Mr Alexander FORBES
                              Relationship to Head: Son
                              Additional Information: Husband Of Jenney

                              There are no children in this grave.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I read your post to mean that you thought a person would have to prove they were a Roman Catholic before they could attend a RC church. I was saying they wouldn't because it would immediately be obvious whether or not they were familiar with the liturgy.

                                Anyone turning up at a RC church would surely be accepted at face value and would not be (officially) questioned about their origins.

                                OC

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                                  Jude,

                                  if you can get to your local libarary they should have free access to Ancestry Worldwide
                                  It's such a pain to go out to the library and only have about an hour of access if others are waiting. I can spend hours on it.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I thought it used to be that if you wanted to get married in a catholic church you had to prove that you were baptised in one and officially become a member of that church. A little more formal process than just going to mass. That would have been in Ireland. I don't know how long Michael and Bridget were members of that church. Nor do I know how religious they were. I'm scrounging for any document or registry that would have the town or parish that he came from in Ireland.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Yes, probably if you wanted to marry in a RC church you would be questioned about where you had been baptised but depending on your answers, probably nothing would be written down.

                                      You could try writing to the church again, this time asking what they charge for research.

                                      OC

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        This is probably of no use whatsoever, but all those surnames (Forbes, Duffy, Gavin etc) could equally well be Scottish.

                                        OC

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