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  • Need help to translate a will from 1810

    I've just purchased a will from the National archives and need help to understand what it says. could you help. would I be allowed to attach it on here?

    It is the will of Samuel Upton Shillam.

    Thank you

  • #2
    If you are talking about a transcription of the whole will, then I doubt you would be able to attach an image of a higher enough quality for someone to be able to read it and help. Probably best that if someone offers to help you send a copy of the will to them by email.

    If it is just small sections that you need help with then you can try posting on this thread to see if anyone can help.
    Elaine







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    • #3
      I can understand some of the will but there are still large sections I'm not sure about. So it would be better to do what you have suggested and email it.... all I need now is some one with some spare time on their hands that wouldn't mind taking a look. The will is less than 1 page but I would need to send it with others attached cos it wont let me copy and paste the parts concerning me.

      Thank you

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      • #4
        Perhaps if some kind soul could offer to receive the file and chop it up, then relevant bits might be small enough to post.
        Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

        Comment


        • #5
          I really would like to get the Will translated because there seems to be some thing up. On the administration letter da\ted 1810, regarding the Will it states there is £200 and the only kin left is the Grandfather William Shillam.

          This is not correct as Samuel Upton Shillam's 2nd wife Ann and son are on the 1841 Census.

          I've also seen on The National Archives in Kew a court case dated 1812 Shillam.v.Shillam between plaintiff William and defendant Ann. It can only think of it regarding Samuel Upton's Will. (shame I cant access that info on line... specially not living in London.

          Oh, and I found how to chop it too. should I attach it to this thread?
          Last edited by Tralena; 31-01-11, 00:32.

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          • #6
            Yes Tralena attach it and someone will be able to have a look and try to decipher it for you

            Edna

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            • #7
              Samuel Upton Shillams crop 'Will 1808.jpg[ATTACH CONFIG]15333[/ATTACH]
              Attached Files
              Last edited by Tralena; 31-01-11, 09:09.

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              • #8
                I dont think I've done the attachments correctly...... How do I make them bigger for you to read?

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've had a quick look and it seems a bit strange. The will, admon and probate clearly give administration to his 'widow and relict' Ann. However the date of the grant is 30th March 1808. I have no idea why the other document, dated 1810, says his only next of kin is his grandfather. The documents you have seen on TNA index will undoubtedly cast some light on it. There was clearly a dispute! Maybe you could ask if some kind person is going to TNA soon? [Just a thought ... perhaps they were claiming he wasn't really married to Ann?]

                  Anne

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                  • #10
                    I wonder why there was an Admon? The Probate part says 'Admon (with will ammended?)' was granted to Ann. The will seems clear and is signed and witnessed and dated 8 August 1807. You really need to see those papers from TNA!

                    How old was William when he died? And therefore what age was his grandfather and what happened to William's parents?

                    Anne

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                    • #11
                      Hi Ann, thank you for taking the time and for your thoughts

                      Due to this Will and Probate, my tree is now in a muddle and it seems I've left out a generation. (and I thought I was doing so well !!!)

                      This is the information I have:

                      Samuel Upton Shillam b.c1778 (date estimated from 1st marriage if samuel was 25years old at the time of being wed) died between 1808 -1810 (date estimated from the Will). Occupation: Woolcomber (as shown on Will). Probate document states he was a shepherd.

                      1st. Wife: Elizabeth Jones b.c1782 (date estimated from date of marriage if Elizabeth was 21 years). died between 1804 -1806 (dates estimated from 2nd marriage). Married on 23 Oct 1803 at St. Olave Bermondsey surry. Samuel and Elizabeth had a son also named Samuel M. born between 1804 - 1806. (only found out about this son via the Will, so no other info).

                      2nd Wife: Ann Hayward b.1786 (date estimated Ann being 21 at time of marriage) Married 1st Jan 1807 at St. Paul, Covent Garden Westminster. Ann and Samuel had one son, William b. 1807 - 1810 (dates estimated from 2nd marriage and Samuels death)

                      I have no info on the Grandfather William, he only came to light via the Probate document.

                      I now have a problem with my tree. As I had Ann and Samuels son as:

                      William Joseph Ellison Shillam b.1826-7.....the date was taken from the 1841 Census, (clearly I've made a big muddle cos the Census wont be 20 years out), , I just cant cant get my head around it at the moment). The William I have on my tree wasn't even born at the time of Samuels death.... I must have missed a generation.

                      The court case: What is the equivalent of £200 in today's money and does anyone know how much it would have cost to go to court in 1812. Would Grandfather William take Ann to court because he believed she wasn't married when she could prove she was. May be he didn't feel she was married to his son long enough to deserve all his worldly goods. It would be nice to get to the bottom if this. On second thoughts the Probate document had the word Bachelor.... so may be Ann in Carlisle is right.

                      If anyone would like to look this up at The National Archives in Kew, the website states 3 days notice.

                      [W1810 S45] Shillam.v.Shillam Bill and Answer
                      Plaintiff: William Shillam - Defendant Ann Shillam
                      SMP dates 1812 Parchment membranes
                      Unpublished findings aids - suit titles taken from OBS 1/654
                      Data on parties taken from IND 1/4158 fo 425
                      Context C13 /146

                      Didn't know what was needed so wrote everything down.

                      Thank you for any help or thoughts.

                      Tralena

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                      • #12
                        Hmmmm! I don't know what to think. I did wonder if there is a missing generation somewhere. I hadn't noticed that it said 'bachelor?' on the other document. The ? implies that there was a doubt about whether he was a bachelor.

                        Sorry don't know what else to suggest. I hope it soon becomes clearer for you.

                        Anne

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                        • #13
                          I've decided to go back to basics with William Joseph Ellison Shillam b.1826.....I have his marriage cert and it states is father is a builder by the name of Joseph Ellison Shillam!!!

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                          • #14
                            Could some one please help me find the 1851 Census for William Joseph Ellison Shillam and/or his 1st wife Elizabeth. I've been trying for the last few hours without success. or if you come across his Baptism that would be fantastic.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tralena View Post
                              Could some one please help me find the 1851 Census for William Joseph Ellison Shillam and/or his 1st wife Elizabeth. I've been trying for the last few hours without success. or if you come across his Baptism that would be fantastic.
                              where was he born? Tralena.. WJES that is
                              Julie
                              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                              .......I find dead people

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                have you seen the ancestry tree for him?

                                Julie
                                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                .......I find dead people

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Hi Julie

                                  Yes I did see the tree, but but the parents are not listed and its the parents I'm after so I can clear up the 'Will'.... to be honest it not looking like the shillams on the Will are my Shillams, but I would still like to get it sorted cos the Surry Shillams belong to some one....

                                  As for WJE I can only assume he was born in Pancras in 1826-7 (going by the 1841 Census)... but then I'm not even sure thats right people any more.

                                  It does seem as if my Shillams are coming from the Pancras/Islington area.

                                  Sorry I cant be any more clearer than that.
                                  Last edited by Tralena; 31-01-11, 17:14.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    no problems am looking for you :D
                                    Julie
                                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                    .......I find dead people

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Ok lets get the census up here, so we can see where we are at:

                                      1841

                                      William Shillam 14
                                      Ann Shillam 55 Dressmaker NOT born in county

                                      http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...ki1841&indiv=1

                                      Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 685; Book: 14; Civil Parish: St Pancras; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 14B; Folio: 26; Page: 46; Line: 14; GSU roll: 438801
                                      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      1861



                                      William J B Shillam 34 Occ GOLDSMITH (there should be some records of his apprenticeship for this, which would give some additional info)
                                      Mary A Shillam 26
                                      William J Shillam 3
                                      Bertha M Shillam 5
                                      Alfred C Shillam 1

                                      Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 130; Folio: 105; Page: 25; GSU roll: 542578.
                                      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      1871

                                      William J Shillam 44 Goldsmith
                                      Mary A Shillam 37
                                      Berthe M Shillam 15
                                      William J Shillam 13
                                      Alfred C Shillam 11
                                      Alice M Shillam 7
                                      Frank C Shillam 9
                                      Gertrudge C Shillam 5
                                      Lewis White 20 (visitor)



                                      Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 271; Folio: 27; Page: 48; GSU roll: 824918.
                                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      1881

                                      William J. Shillam 53 Gold chain maker (married but no wife there)
                                      Frank E. Shillam 19
                                      Alice M. Shillam 16
                                      Gertrude Shillam 14



                                      Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 265; Folio: 11; Page: 16; GSU roll: 1341057.

                                      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      Last edited by Darksecretz; 31-01-11, 17:39.
                                      Julie
                                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                      .......I find dead people

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Thank you for that.....
                                        I'll copy the source citation on to my tree.

                                        You mention a record for his apprenticeship. I'll see if I can find any thing out about that

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